Moze needs a proper class mod

Firstly let me state I love moze I played 800 hours on her, yet recently I made both a Zane and amara. These 2 are worlds apart compared to moze due to the seein dead and spiritual driver, I can’t speak first hand for flak but I imagine it’s the same.
So as far as class mod ideas go mine would be to have points in drowning in brass and click click, the third probably would have to be vampyr or the com would need to have a healing element added to it in that case I’d say vladof ingenuity. Which brings me to how it should read, my suggestion would to be follow the seein dead in having it activate kill skills on kill and instead of the added strength to abilities make it heal moze for 10% max health on kill. Now for this to work like the seein dead the first issue I see is phalanx as it’s not capped which would need to be obviously.
Without a class mod like this of some kind moze is just not in the same league as the others I mean I can literally run through the takedown with Zane and not even go close to dying, I can even do it wearing a loaded dice…
Now this is all just my opinion and purely speculative but I’d like to know what others think, its no secret she is severely weaker at the current stage of the game so what does gearbox do to resolve this?

Maybe try it without those “easy mode” coms and see how well they fair off - yes its been done, even without MT scaling, but even mains of those characters call it “too easy” with them; a com isnt a way to fix a character - it should complement them and synergise with their abilities; what moze needs is a seccondary healing option and a change to 1 of the many “weapon damage” skills to being a multiplicative “damage” skill
Also… with amara - if you were fake grasping theres not a fair comparison

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I agree with the fact that Moze needs better coms.

However, and speaking in general here, I don’t think a com should be used to fix a character . It looks kinda like what happened to Zane but what happens later? Do wen continue to run the same com for the games durations.

Not saying your idea is bad, as I said, I agree with new and varied coms.

It’s just the way to fix a class.

Moze needs individual attention. She needs a larger variety of sustain skills to compliment her kit. Make her shield regen skills worth speccing into. She needs more ways to Regen health.

I say look to a character like Axton as an amazing example of stellar skill trees.

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I agree that Moze could do with a bit more from a class mod because as it stands right now, the Blast Master is her closest take on ‘Spiritual Driver/Seein’ Dead’ level of power, and she could also do with more sustain, be it from a skill or a class mod.

But that sustain should NOT be health regen (per second) because it just doesn’t suffice in M4; look at Fl4k. So many health regen skills and yet even specced into them, survivability is still quite poor when tackling challenging content. Unless you can do Fade Away 24/7 or roll a Gamma Burst-Red Fang build, you’re better off throwing all your points at the damage skills and picking up guns with 15% life steal after ASE. Amara’s Sustainment and Zane’s Salvation are major factors in why their survivability is superior.

I can do it with with phasecast not grasp and yes I agree without those com’s they are very much so weaker but the point is they have them so why does our poor little moze get left out in the cold?

Our version of seein dead… is a lucky 7 pistol… ? It can do amazing things :sweat_smile:
Seriously though, im not a fan of a bandaid com fix

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The blast master is probably her best mod but using a 3x kyb’s worth with the 44 magazine and spec’d all the way in to bottomless mags with grenade spam she reloads again within a minute sadly. Obviously you can use a 2x but it’s also obviously weaker… The green monster is a watered down version of the bm and falls very short imo. And yes I agree with what others have said a mod shouldn’t be used to fix a character but as I see her skill tree being re-worked as likely as me winning lotto tomorrow a class mod to save her is likely to be her only salvation.

I imagine they’ll add more coms as DLC rolls out and level caps rise. And if previous games are anything to go by, the roll stats on coms and artifacts will probably rise with level also. I see the current class mods as unique capstone skills and I think that’s probably gearbox’s plan. Diversify skills with coms and maybe add extra skill trees to alter play styles horizontally rather than continuously stacking power creep. We’ll probably see new skill trees for each vault hunter starting to fill traditionalish rpg roles. Tank, healer, rogue, mage etc.

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I actually like all of Moze’s COMs. I think hers is the most consistent out of the four. They seem fairly balanced, because they have trade-offs. I mean they’re not all great, but at the same time, they’re not all that bad.

If players want a faceroll COM like Seein’ Dead and the like, I’m not going to get in their way. I just don’t think it’s good for the game to have a scenario where the character is only viable because of a class mod. Each class has flaws that need to be addressed. I’m not saying that this will make Moze on par with Amara and Zane, but problems should be fixed before introducing more variables.

Yet moze is the only one without a mod to activate any kill skills, so yeah I agree her com’s are consistent just not sure I agree that it is in a good way, but everyone’s opinion is always going to differ. Don’t get me wrong man I’m not trying to undermine what your saying at all I just don’t see how anyone can compare moze to the other 3 atm and it comes down to the class mods they have simple as that.

I literally came here to say that loaded dice, with a seeing dead Zane means literally nothing.

Loaded dice cuts your max health and adds a heal on kill. Zane has a skill called Salvation that is life steal based on damage, which is proc’d and boosted by Seeing Dead. With as tiny max health as Loaded Gives you, and how Life Steal is based on damage and not max health, and how health gate works, that’s literally not a feat of accomplishment in any respect.

Also, idk, yeah. Moze needs something better, but also, some things are about figuring out what works and what doesn’t.

Or. Also…don’t ask me…I break things :joy:

At what point did I say it was an accomplishment? I was merely pointing out that other characters are so far ahead and using it as an example. So coming here to say that is literally no feat of AN accomplishment what so ever, so congratulations on that.

You used that fact to make it seem like it should have been more difficult, when the inverse is true.

I think Moze has good class mods. She has nothing as spectacular as the Driver or Seein Red, but I think her best mods (Blast Master/Mind Sweeper) are definitely better and more impactful than any Fl4k mod.

I would say Fl4k has alot of decent to good class mods, but no great ones. You could interchange the Stalker, Bounty Hunter and a purple Thrillbot, and 80% of the time there wouldn’t be a huge difference in performance. Heck, I have often ran huge sections of maps only to realise I was wearing a DE4DEYE or Stackbot instead of my Bounty Hunter, and could barely tell the difference. Contrarily, take away the Blast Master, Bloodletter or Mindsweeper and the difference in Moze’s performance is instantaneous.

Fl4k and Moze represent 2 different problems. For Fl4k, he lacks any truly impactful class mods, but makes up for it because he has so much inherent power. For Moze, she has alot of very impactful class mods, but struggles without them because of natural limitations of the class.

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I think that there is a reason why Moze APPEARS to have lesser skills and class mods compared to the other VH’s. She’s actually extremely potent in splash damage with proper skill selection, as is Iron Bear, if she had stronger skills and class mods, she’d be the only VH people would use. Only issue is, most players don’t have the time and patience for a proper build, it’s easier for them to go to Zane or Amara or Flak. Where Moze lacks is healing, without a doubt.

I agree with this. Moze doesn’t have any trouble at all killing enemies. All she lacks is proper sustain.

No idea how it slipped through giving her only 1 method of healing that’s both annoying to use and the method to regen her grenades to use Vampyr is clunky and broken half the time.

I wish there was an Otto idol equivalent on class mods though. Like a bonus stat ‘gain x% max health when enemy is killed’

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Thank you, I even use a rough rider with loaded dice because I’m still invincible, because if Seein’Dead.

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Some adjustements I would like to improve Moze’ survivability is to put Vampyr, Pull the Holy Pin, and Iron Bear at the top of her tree.

I think damage-wise she is good. She can deal a lot of damage and sustain with Blast Master and Mind Sweeper. If we compare her to Amara or Zane, maybe we should look into those characters instead. Maybe their COMS are too OP and needs nerfing. Or they have glitches that needs to be nerfed as well. I’m sure some people will be complaining about these nerfs but if they are truly OP and glitches, why not nerf them? Isn’t that one thing where GB really excels at?

I’m Moze player. Of course any bump to her skills, gear, etc are always welcome but I just wanna make sure we’re not comparing her to broken COMs, glitches, mechanics from other VHs.