Moze needs better sustainment and more damage

Not saying it cant be done

I’m currently hunting a spring epi with the on thrown anoint -.-

If it even exists. It was considered the strongest sustain I could muster in my theory

It exists.


Praise the sun [T]/

Yes the sustainment could be better. Now I can’t speak for what changes should be done to the red tree since I don’t really use him but I’d like to see them change Vampyr’s activation condition from “grenade” / “IB weapon splash” to “whenever splash damage is dealt”. This would benefit both Moze and Iron Bear.

Also, I would like to see them reworking how “lifesteal on weapon” works. If we get lifesteal from a more general source like the Sapper CM or Amara’s Sustainment skill then we pretty much get the full amount from “X% of damage dealt” but if it’s on a weapon then the healing seems to be only based of the “base damage” of the weapon meaning it’s going to ignore crits, elemental multipliers and all that stuff which is just stupid as it leads to the lifesteal being so low that it defeats the purpose of even having it. TBH it should just work like how it did in BL2. This time there is no Salvador to “Grog Nozzle + Interfacer” Wotan so what the heck Gearbox? I can’t even bring a healing weapon for sustain which is just frustrating as some of them like the Crit would actually be great choices here.

Amara Sustainment skill is based on the base damage of the gun plus a few boost. It does not factor in all boost or element type bonuses. Just an FYI.

Seein’ Dead is 100x better than Sapper. It not only buffs Zanes sustain but his damage by a good amount as well. Sapper gives us good sustain, but tanks our damage in exchange.

If it was healing on on splash damage dealt then they would have to seriously lower the percentage because she would never die there’s so much splash going on at least from most of the builds I see and the one I run on her.

My issue is I forget to throw grenades because I don’t hold the controller like you probably should so I could shoot and throw. User error forsure

I wasn’t saying Seeing dead was the same as Sapper. I was referring to how the addition of the COM was a band-aid fix. Zane has issues with too many conditional buffs. So they made his kill skills stack, gave him a COM that automatically activated your Action Skills, and an anointment that gives 100% for 100% uptime for sentry.

Rather than fixing his skill tree they gave a band-aid fix. Moze had issue with sustain and people have asked for something in the green tree to heal us. Instead we get a COM that literally does what a skill should have done in the first place.

I’m guessing the CONTEXT again is Solo True Takedown at Mayhem 4? If not, I don’t see how sustainment and damage is an issue with Moze in Proving Grounds, Main Story, Side quests etc. Yes having more of sustainment and damage is a big welcome but they aren’t an issue on those areas of the game. So again, the context is Solo True Takedown at Mayhem 4? If yes, it won’t be an issue anymore with solo TTD M4 after Mayhem 2.0 comes out. However it may be with Mayhem 2.0 lvl 10.

Vampyr as life steal on splash is nice but big chance it won’t happen. GBX spent months perfecting the Sapper com. Why would they invalidate their perfect creation?

I really like to have a com similar to Zane’s Seein Dead but the more I think about it and after doing numerous solo TTD with Moze, the more I think Seein Dead is a badly designed com in terms of being OP and making a strong imbalance among VHs. I would like it to be nerfed. Solo TTD M4 shouldn’t be an easy cruise even with the top builds – at least that’s the design intention from GBX.

I started to play moze this weekend, transitioning from fl4k. I have yet to try mtd with her. I ran a handful of slaughter shafts with her and I felt the sustain was pretty good and much better than fl4k. Her sustained damage is top tier due to bottomless mags. I had a pretty simple gameplan to strip shields and armor, then let auto bear’s nukes destroy flesh. Hex grenades were even doable; cloning maddening was superior thought. And that’s my problem with her- I think she should be good with all grenades. So can anyone recommend any other grenades besides epicenter, nagata, cmt, and some of the torgue purples?

We dont need nerfs to anything. Leave seeing dead alone. I play as fl4k and now moze and dont want zane or amara nerfed even though I don’t play as those characters. Gearbox’s stance on Ttd is that it is a 4 player activity. Because of this, dont expect single player character balance to revolve around the solo ttd experience.

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Why was scaled takedown created in the first place?

To make take down a single player experience, scaled td was created. That is a mode they could balance around, but dont expect gear and skill balance from ttd experiences.

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I doubt you are correct with this. I expect GB considers ttd experience as part of their overall decision when balancing gear and skills. Now whether they execute it correctly or not is another topic to consider.

Vampyr doesn’t have lifesteal, it has “recover X% HP on hit” which is a different effect that, unlike lifesteal, is not based on your damage. It’s also generally a lot weaker than lifesteal, 20% HP on hit does generally amount to less than 5% lifesteal and also has the downside of not synergising well with slow firing weapons.

I don’t see how it would invalidate the Sapper. Keep in mind that people are asking for Vampyr to still be splash based meaning that it wouldn’t synergize well with the majority of the arsenal. So if you want to have high sustain on the Lob, the Krakatoa and many of the other top tier weapons the Sapper would still be the go to choice.

No, I’m certain this is correct. It has been their stance throughout the entirety that ttd is a four man activity. They have reiterated this on several occasions. They have washed their hands clean from any balancing around ttd.

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I never said it has lifesteal. Where did you read that? Did you read the context before my post?

That was actually a sarcastic remark on Sapper. “PERFECT CREATION”.

This is actually the point. If it requires 4 man TTD, why is it easy to do SOLO with certain VHs and certain coms? It just means they failed to uphold the 4 man TTD experience.

Well, this part of the discussion may no longer be valuable after Mayhem 2.0. Solo TTD at Mayhem 10 may not be the same anymore. We’ll see after tomorrow.

That’s why the experience is variable, much more so compared to the other content. That’s why amara and zane have an easier time in general compared to fl4k (which now granted is still not bad). It’s enter at your own risk.