Moze Skill Tree Rework Idea


Hello, I’m Velvet, I am here to share my ideas about changes to Moze’s Skills but before I get into this I want to say upfront that I am not a Developer, Balance Expert and have not worked on any video games. I am just a fan of the borderlands series and these are just my opinions and I want to give constructive feedback. Also this is my first post so I hope I’m doing this right. (P.S. I have no other social media and am not very adept with it so please excuse some errors.)

So why am I writing this? It is common knowledge that Moze is lacking when compared to the other three Vault Hunters but I feel it is more than just a simple buff or number change that can fix such a thing. The main problem I find is that other Vault Hunter’s are building for themselves and have an action skill as a bonus while Moze is building for two characters, herself and Iron Bear. Which means any skill that doesn’t benefit both either has to be very good or work in tandem with other skills. Unfortunately this is rarely the case. For Example when you think about what Moze does, you thing Explosive Damage and stuff like that. But in your head think about how many Explosive Damage Skills Moze has…

The Answer is 1 Fire in the Skag Den
having only 1 skill that adds 15% Damage seems lacking to put it nicely but I did say changing numbers isn’t the answer so…

My main topic will be about Moze’s Skill Trees and how they are fundamentally flawed in design and placement. It is very hard to move down her trees without taking skills you don’t want or do very little as well as the difference in quality is very apparent. You could close your eyes and pick skills at random with Amara and end up with a decent build in any of her trees but I don’t think anything remotely close can be said about Moze. There isn’t anything Moze can do that other characters can’t do better. I am not counting Ammo Regeneration because that doesn’t make a character good, Salvadaor was not good because he could regenerate ammo it was because he could Gunzerk especially if one of the guns was the Grog Nozzle.
I will try to keep this topic solely about Moze and not to compare her to the other Vault Hunters but so lets get into this.

If you want to follow along with the skills here is a (rough) image of the Trees

:star: Bottomless Mags :star:

This Skill Tree is by far her most consistent and I have made the least changes in so this should be a good place to start. The biggest problem with this tree is flexibility it has some really great skills that invalidate others and some skills that are just a waste of points. The reason it is such a big deal that Moze lacks flexibility is that she is building for 2, Herself and Iron Bear.

Dakka Bear

Adds a manned turret to the back and handles on each side of Iron Bear.

This would work like a Bandit Technical (BL2 Vehicle) were as you could sit in the back and use your guns and action skills (Moze wouldn’t be able to and neither would some of Amara’s). This change would also allow your entire team to be on Iron Bear, You as the Pilot, One in the Turret and the last two hanging off the sides.

Credit for this skill goes to @HolstaurGirl

Matched Set -> Selfless Vengeance

Whenever Moze reloads, she loses a small portion of her health and grants additional Incendiary Damage to her and her allies’ rounds for 5 seconds :arrow_forward: 10 seconds .

At 1/5:
Current Health Removed: 1%
Bonus Incendiary Damage: +3% of gun damage dealt
At 5/5:
Current Health Removed: 5%
Bonus Incendiary Damage: +15% of gun damage dealt

My change here is to remove this skill and replace it with Selfless Vengeance. The reason is because Matched Set is a very dangerous skill meaning it really stifles creativity and experimentation with your gear to get a bonus that can range from barely noticeable to huge. You are not forced to take the skill but that leads me to my other point being that Moze severely lacks good Tier 1 Skills and being that you don’t pick this skill you are forced to choose Cloud of Lead so switching Matched Set to Selfless Vengeance not only gives you an option to go down this tree without picking Ammo Increasing Skills, it also gives you immediate Fire synergy with Cloud of Lead into Stoke the Embers.


While moving, Moze’s Handling, Weapon Swap and Mode Switch Speed are increased.

At 1/5:
Weapon Swap Speed: +16.0% :arrow_forward: +16%
Mode Switch Speed: +16.0% :arrow_forward: +25%
Handling: +10.7% :arrow_forward: +19%
At 5/5:
Weapon Swap Speed: +48.7% :arrow_forward: +50%
Mode Switch Speed: +48.7% :arrow_forward: +80%
Handling: +37.5% :arrow_forward: +60%

First things first I would remove the “While moving” part of this skill and secondly the numbers are so big because there should be a reason you might consider this skill but more than that I thought this would be a good way to showcase character flavor by having Moze be able to easily swap weapon modes since she worked for Vladof and she specializes with heavy weaponry and explosives, so increasing her handling would make sense especially because she would need it more than anyone else.
Side note being how Handling is calculated: It’s Multiplicative ex. 43% + 60% -> 43 x 0.60 = +25.8

Rushin’ Offensive

Moze can sprint and shoot at the same time and has increased Movement Speed. She constantly Regenerates Health and gains Gun Damage while sprinting. Iron Bear receives double this bonus.

At 1/3:
:arrow_forward: Movement Speed: +5%
:arrow_forward: Gun Damage while sprinting: +10%
:arrow_forward: Health Regeneration while sprinting: +1.5%
At 3/3
:arrow_forward: Movement Speed: +15%
:arrow_forward: Gun Damage while sprinting: +30%
:arrow_forward: Health Regeneration while sprinting: +5%

A little more restrictive than Fl4k’s The Fast And The Furryous but much better. Three main things the Bottomless Mags Tree is missing is Movement Speed, Gun Damage and Sustain. So here is all those things. You can definitely see the similarities to Wilhelm’s Shock Absorbers skill. The main problem with Wilhelm’s skill is that you always felt obligated to sprint to get a bit of extra Gun Damage but the important thing here is that the biggest bonuses are Movement speed and Health Regeneration since that is what Moze needs the most rather than the damage bonus.
(The Damage bonus might have to be smaller since it is doubled for Iron Bear, and a rewording from Gun Damage so it would work with Bear Fist… much like most of Moze’s skills?).

Side Note: Iron Bear would Regenerate Armor not add to Moze’s Hp Regen. This would alleviate some pressure to use Vampyr.

Side Side Note: Maybe it would be better making it “While Moving” for Iron Bear.

Credit for this skill goes to @HolstaurGirl

Click Click

:arrow_forward: After firing a shot Moze gains a stack of Don’t Stop . For every stack Moze gains Health Regeneration. The faster you fire the faster you gain stacks. 20 stacks will be removed over the course of 1 second when not firing.
Moze gains increased Gun Damage as her magazine empties. The less ammo there is remaining, the greater the increase.
If Moze has a COV gun equipped, she gains Gun Damage as her gun’s heat increases.

At 1/3:
:arrow_forward: Health Regeneration: +0.1 per stack
:arrow_forward: Maximum stacks: 33
Gun Damage: up to +12% :arrow_forward: +20%
At 3/3:
:arrow_forward: Health Regeneration: +0.1 per stack
:arrow_forward: Maximum stacks: 100
Gun Damage: up to +36% :arrow_forward: +60%

This one is going to need some explanation so if you need to know how Click Click actually works Here. While I do like that you get a bigger benefit from the higher capacity magazine the change I would make is that your last shot gets the full bonus much like Salvador’s Money Shot Skill because it would give her a bigger benefit to use rocket launchers and low capacity shotgun but it would still be worth using for it’s consistent return on high mag weapons. Since Moze has no skill in the Bottomless Mags Tree that help her survive the second change would be giving her a way to regenerate health from high fire rate / high magazine weapons. Seems like a perfect fit.

Credit for this skill goes to @lolli42

Edit: Damage Bonus could be higher / The health regeneration aspect could be changed to the “Sapper” Class mod instead.


Moze and Iron Bear constantly regenerates ammo for her currently equipped weapon.

Ammo Regeneration: +5.0% of magazine/sec. Iron Bear receives double this bonus.
Your friends receive half this bonus.

Simple but effective. This Tree has a few Iron Bear Skills but not many and currently no capstone benefits the bear so this would give you even more of a reason to invest into this tree if you are building the bear. It’s not quite Overcharge but your friends will appreciate the ammo regeneration bonus.

Side Note: Iron Bear would receive a Reload Speed increase and Minigun / Railgun Cooldown Rate Increase.

Credit for the Side Note and Team bonus goes to @HolstaurGirl

:star: Demolition Woman :star:

I don’t know if I made the most amount of changes here or to Shield of Retribution so buckle in… Obviously no other Tree Moze has is as powerful as this one. It has so many good skill but many of them feel crammed in, this is the Explosion Tree… Why is half of it Iron Bear? It is the best example of split ideas that don’t work with each other since the Bear doesn’t benefit at all from any of the explosive skills unless you are using explosive weapons on the Bear.

Fire in the Skag Den

Whenever Moze deals Splash Damage, she deals bonus Incendiary Damage.

At 1/5:
Bonus Incendiary Damage: +3% :arrow_forward: +4%
:arrow_forward: Incendiary Damage Resistance: +6%
At 5/5:
Bonus Incendiary Damage: +15% :arrow_forward: +20%
:arrow_forward: Incendiary Damage Resistance: +30%

If you have ever played Moze you are no stranger to her lack of survivability… so here is some survivability, it’s not the biggest bonus but for this we will compare her to Amara’s Brawl Tree and more specifically One With Nature.
( 5/5 Maximum Health: +25% Elemental Damage Resistance: +40%)
This version is much more narrow but it synergises with Moze since she wants to do Fire Damage and adding it to her splash damage means she will have a higher chance of hitting herself with it so… Resistance

Deadlines -> To the Last

This skill gets no changes but Moves to the Shield of Retribution Tree and is Replaced with To the Last. If Demolition Woman wants us to use explosives why do we have to wait until at least level 23 to throw grenades while down, that only becomes really good when you have a supremely powerful grenade and you will probably be max level by that time so why would it matter if we could invest our first point into more explosions.

Grizzled -> Torgue Cross-Promotion

Same deal as the last, Moving to SoR and replaced with Torgue Cross-Promotion… I know… I’ll Explain in the next note.

Torgue Cross-Promotion

All Splash Damage dealt by Moze has a chance to double in size. :arrow_forward: Upon Entering, Exiting, Summoning and Self-Destructing the Iron Bear will now drop grenades. Moze and Iron Bear gain Splash Damage Resistance.

At 1/5:
+3% chance to double Splash Damage Radius :arrow_forward: Grenades Dropped: +1
:arrow_forward: Splash Damage Resistance: +18%
At 5/5:
15% chance to double Splash Damage Radius :arrow_forward: Grenades Dropped: +5
:arrow_forward: Splash Damage Resistance: +66%

The original Skill is easily contender for worst skill in the game. While you might look at Force Feedback and say that this one is completely invalidated by the guardian skill, I would agree with you but I would also say that at least Force Feedback doesn’t activly kill you.
But this new version now that’s what I call a Skill! My thoughts behind this were Torgue likes Explosives… But more so a homage to the skill that makes your friends hate you: Claptrap’s Torgue Fiesta except this one doesn’t hurt your team.
Another point would be Why on earth does Amara have Arms Deal and not Moze?
(5/5 Splash Damage: +20% Splash Damage Resistance: +40%)
So here is a bootleg Arms Deal.
Side note: I didn’t want the Splash Resistance too high because of class mods. 18% -> 15% -> 12% -> 11% -> 10% -> 7% -> 4% -> 3% -> 2% -> 1%

Torgue Cross-Promotion -> Vladof Ingenuity

Moze’s Maximum Shield is increased, and while Moze’s shields are active she gains resistance to Shock Damage :arrow_forward: Elemental Damage.

At 1/5:
Shock Damage Resistance: +15.0% :arrow_forward: Elemental Damage Resistance +12%
Max Shield: +6.0% :arrow_forward: +6%
At 5/5:
Shock Damage Resistance: +47% :arrow_forward: Elemental Damage Resistance: +40%
Max Shield: +30% :arrow_forward: +30%

Vladof Ingenuity would take TC-P old position in the tree.
Usually you would just put points into this to move down the SoR Tree and you can get nearly the same bonus from Zane’s Hearty Stock Skill for less points. I really like the design choice of making a character very reliant on their Shields rather than Health so I wanted a good survivability skill that only works while shields are active.

Stainless Steel Bear -> ???

Like the other Iron Bear Focused Skills SSB is moved to SoR and replaced with…

Still Not Bitten

While Moze’s shields are active she gains Health Regeneration.

At 1/5:
Health Regen: 0.2%
At 5/5:
Heath Regen: 1%

Finally some health regeneration! Moze has the problem of literally her only sustain skill is Vampyr and when she runs out of grenades shes dead. Still Not Bitten is meant to alleviate some of that pressure while not being too powerful, I wanted to make this skill work like Amara’s Clarity with Shields instead but the Bloodletter Class mod exists.

Auto Bear

Side Note: In a perfect world Moze would have the ability to Summon Iron Bear and hop in and out while he is deployed without this skill and he would stay deployed for 15 seconds (Basically Auto Bear but built into the action skill. If this were the case the change to this skill would be the “Rocketeer” Class mods effect. Otherwise read on…
Credit to @lolli42 for working with me to change this skill.

After Moze exits Iron Bear, it will remain deployed in place for 15 seconds. While Auto Bear remains active, it will target and attack nearby enemies until its duration ends, then it will charge at an enemy and self-destruct. Hold (Button) to Summon.

No actually changes to the skill other than “Hold to Summon”. The most IMPORTANT thing with this is that it activates Some for the Road and Anointments. A possible change could be you can’t re-enter or summon the bear until Auto Bear has Self-Destructed or it has been a minimum of 15s (Even if the cooldown is fully recharged)
Side note: Torgue Cross-Promotion will only activate on Self-Destruct if Iron Bear was Summoned (To Prevent Hop in Hop Out Gameplay)


Whenever Moze damages an enemy with a grenade or Iron Bear deals aura damage, for every enemy hit, she restores a portion of their missing health. Iron Bear receives half this bonus.

At 1/5:
Restores +4% of missing health per enemy hit.
At 5/5:
Restores +20% of missing health per enemy hit.

Another small change removing “aura” so the Bear will heal from any damage it deals rather than just explosive damage, freeing the choice of weaponry the Bear can wield.

Why Can’t I Carry All These Grenades

Increases Moze’s and Iron Bear’s grenade carrying capacity and explosive damage.

At 1/3:
Grenade Capacity: +1 :arrow_forward: +2
:arrow_forward: Iron Bear Grenade Launcher Capacity: +3
:arrow_forward: Splash Damage: +5%
At 3/3:
Grenade Capacity: +3 :arrow_forward: +6
:arrow_forward: Iron Bear Grenade Launcher Capacity: +9
:arrow_forward: Splash Damage: +15%

Pretty simple change going from 11 grenades to 14 doesn’t really matter. Now WCICATG is more like Axton’s Grenadier Skill. Also giving more of a reason to use Iron Bear’s Grenade Launchers since very few skills boost both Moze and Iron Bear, with a little bit of explosive damage as the cherry on top.

Credit for the additional bonuses goes to @HolstaurGirl

To the Last -> Full Can of Whoop-Ass

Entering or Summoning Iron Bear causes Moze’s and her allies’ shields to immediately begin recharging at an increased Shield Recharge Rate.

Shield Recharge Rate +25%

Full Can of Whoop-Ass Will take To the Last old position in the tree.
This skill is criminally underrated it works similarly to Roland’s Quick Charge Skill meaning even if you take damage your shield will still regenerate. I thought it fitting to move it here because the previous tiers you could have chosen Auto Bear. The change was “or Summoning

Explosive Punctuation

When Moze deals Splash Damage, her Action Skill Cooldown Rate is briefly increased. :arrow_forward: When Moze deals Splash Damage, she gains a stack of Explosive Punctuation. For every stack Moze gains Damage Resistance. Stacks decay after a very short amount of time.

At 1/5:
Action Skill Cooldown Rate: +5% :arrow_forward: Damage Resistance: +2% per stack
:arrow_forward: Duration: 2 Seconds
:arrow_forward: Maximum stacks: 10
At 5/5:
Action Skill Cooldown Rate: +5% :arrow_forward: Damage Resistance: +10% per stack
:arrow_forward: Duration: 2 Seconds
:arrow_forward: Maximum stacks: 10

This is a deceptive skill it is much worse than you Think and having Grizzled in the same Tree was not doing it any favors. So instead of Cooldown how about Damage Resistance for dealing splash damage allowing Moze to play a more aggressive style.

Credit for this skill goes to @cailte

Short Fuse

Whenever Moze and Iron Bear deals Gun Damage or Action Skill Damage, there is a chance of a secondary explosion centered on the target. Iron Bear receives a 65% Chance for a Secondary Explosion instead of 20%.

Secondary Explosion Chance: 20%
Secondary Explosion Damage: 75% of Gun Damage

It seems very weird this skill doesn’t work with Iron Bear… so now it does. First I added “or Action Skill Damage” so this skill would work with Bear Fists. Secondly I will talk a bit about the added Secondary Explosion Chance because it is an awkward number to adjust since you don’t want it too low since the Bear can’t keep up to most weapons fast fire rate as well as if the number is too low it really hurts the Railguns and Bear Fist. Too high of a chance and it makes Vanquisher Rocket Pods and the Miniguns outclass other weapons even more. So this would be more of an idea and need to be tested rather than just written on paper. (Even 40% could be amazing, who knows?)

Credit for the idea behind this skill goes to @HolstaurGirl

:star: Shield of Retribution :star:

There are some glaring flaws in this Tree ranging from 1Hp / Huge shield builds that don’t really help you survive since Vampyr, or the “Transformer” are doing all the hard work, all the way to wasting points to progress down the tree case in point being Phalanx Doctrine. Much like most of Moze’s Trees there is a lack of flexibility. It is very hard going down this tree if you don’t want a 1Hp Build.

Selfless Vengeance -> Stainless Steel Bear

We already moved Selfless Vengeance to the Bottomless Mags Tree so it is replaced with Stainless Steel Bear giving you an option for immediate Iron Bear damage instead of Cooldown (Originally Grizzled is Tier 1 and SSB is Tier 2) as well as you can now choose from SSB or Armored Infantry for Tier 1 Skills.

Security Bear

Iron Bear gains a bubble shield that reduces damage taken.
The shield deactivates if it sustains too much damage, reactivating after a short cooldown.

50% Iron Bear Max Health added as Shields
Bubble Recharge Delay: 5 sec

Just make it activate instantly that’s all it would be a very good skill for Auto Bear’s Summon also it would make the Bear less reliant on Vampyr.

Vladof Ingenuity -> Grizzled

For sure the best Iron Bear Cooldown skill and now the choice is Moze damage Drowning in Brass or more Iron Bear.

Full Can of Whoop-Ass -> Deadlines

It may seem I’m just throwing Iron Bear skills into this tree, and I am but it really makes a difference because you could build down this tree only taking Iron Bear Skills (And 1 point somewhere) and get to Tier 4 Desperate Measures. We already moved FCoWA to the Demolition Woman Tree.

Behind the Iron Curtain -> Force Feedback

Whenever Moze scores a Critical Kill, her shields immediately begin recharging. :arrow_forward: Whenever Moze or Iron Bear scores a Critical Hit, they gain Shield Drain / Armor Eater (for the Bear).

Shield Drain / Armor Eater: +5% of damage dealt
Duration: 4 Seconds

Shield Drain would be Life Steal but only applying to Shields and Armor Eater would be the same but for Armor (Da Bears). Think Transfusion Grenade Rules. The specifics on this skill are in question, should it be a Kill Skill? Should the duration be lower? Higher? Is 5% too low or too high? But the idea is there. This would definitely be a skill worth considering with this change and it would apply to all aspects of how you might be playing Moze and Iron Bear.

Credit for the idea behind this skill goes to @lolli42


Whenever Moze scores a Critical Kill, her shields immediately begin recharging. :arrow_forward:
Upon shield depletion, Moze is immune to damage for 1 second. This skill can only trigger after Moze’s shields have fully recharged.

With this small change now 1Hp builds can survive a momentary shield break and it combos very nicely with Tenacious Defense.

Cedit for this skill goes to @klg_chaos

Force Feedback -> Behind the Iron Curtain

Moze’s Shield Recharge Delay is reduced, and her Shield Recharge Rate is increased. :arrow_forward: Kill Skill. After killing an enemy, Moze’s shields regenerate.

At 1/5:
Shield Recharge Rate: +7% :arrow_forward: Shield Regeneration: 2% Per Second
Shield Recharge Delay: -7% :arrow_forward:
At 5/5:
Shield Recharge Rate: +21% :arrow_forward: Shield Regeneration: 10% Per Second
Shield Recharge Delay: -19% :arrow_forward:

Hey! Isn’t that just Roland’s Quick Charge!.. Yes… Stay with me here… The regeneration would last 7 seconds like Roland’s… My reasoning is because Moze lacks Health Regeneration and Defense for that matter. She has so few skills that could rival Vampyr so this is one of them. Secondly it’s Tier 5 right beside Phalanx Doctrine so your choice would be bigger shield and a lot more damage at the cost of having to ramp up to it and potentially loosing your stacks or consistent defense. This would not only help the SoR Tree’s 1Hp builds but just Moze’s survivability in general and gives you another Tree as an option rather than just being forced into the Demolition Woman Tree to get Vampyr.

Tenacious Defense

Whenever Moze’s shield is fully depleted, she instantly restores a portion of her shield, and her Gun Damage is increased for a short time.
This skill can only trigger after Moze’s shields have fully recharged.

Restores: +40% of Max Shield
Gun Damage: +30%
Tenacious Defense Duration: 30 seconds

The biggest problem with this skill is that you can die before it activates.
How it works is:
Health -> Damage -> Shield Break -> Overkill Damage -> Death -> Tenacious Defense Recharge

So now with the reworked Force Feedback

Health -> Damage -> Shield Break -> Force Feedback Immune to Damage for 1 Second -> Overkill Damage (Canceled) -> Tenacious Defense Recharge

Not only is it another very good Defensive skill for Moze, now the capstone in the 1Hp Tree actually works with 1Hp builds.


With these changes I feel Moze could be at least on par with the other Vault Hunters but these could be good or bad ideas on paper but bad in practice. The moral of the story is Moze desperately lacks any form of survival unless you want to spam grenades and personally I really do not find that fun at all, she lacks an option to play just by herself without the Iron Bear with the best example being Some for the Road and anointments pretty much makes hop in hop out style the way you have to play her on high mayhem modes adding to the “not really fun list”. If anything I said here could be real I would want it to be the Summoning of Iron Bear and hopping into him while he is deployed without requiring a skill point just make this a normal thing or Giving the Bear 4 Weapons you can switch between since it’s Vladof and 2 weapons in 1 is their thing. Hopefully one day Moze will make Axton and Roland proud as another good soldier class.

Author’s Notes

You made it! That’s it! If you wish to share your opinion I would like to hear it. I will most likely only edit this for grammatical errors. Thanks for reading.
For More Moze Stuff

Great Action Skill Rework


I disagree with some of the ideas here, but it’s all unique and not just another Moze Skill Change post. Nice write up, was worth the read.

Great formatting too btw!

I’d need to draw a flow chart to see where all the skill switches went just to comment on this, but a great write up with well thought out ideas. My main concern is whether these changes would benefit a few builds to the detriment of many, or whether existing builds could still be used without too much problem.


I understand what you’re saying. But I’m curious if another character can do this on M4 without class mod and artifact?

I have some comments on your post but will add it on my next post.

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I was thinking the same thing about flow chart, I added a very rough image so it is easier to follow along. Also I mostly changed bad skills that nobody picks, the biggest changes were where the Iron Bears skills are located as well as giving people more of a reason to invest in Shield of Retribution. So I would assume it would hurt / change Iron Bear builds more than anything else.

The main difference I wanted to point out was that Moze is the only character that has to stay back and spam explosives. I know for a fact that Amara can just obliterate mobbing with just about anything because of her anointments or just how good her skills are through damage or whatnot plus she has Sustainment to render herself almost completely immortal through Elemental Damage (Which is something you are going to do all the time anyways) and that is not even mentioning Ties That Bind + Stillness of Mind or Mindfulness plus everybody but Moze can play “in your face” styles, Fl4k could do a Rakk Attack + Falconer’s Feast build or a Gamma Burst if you really need healing or kill everything extremely quickly with Fade Away. Lastly Zane I don’t know what he is capable without a class mod but his skill speak for themselves if you want to just compare the difference in quality especially in Tier 1. With a class mod he has the “Seein Dead” which lets him cheat his kill skills and again is basically immortal thanks to Salvation which lets him heal off of gun damage + his Barrier giving survivability, damage and speed. Everyone but Moze can play in a fluid rhythm how they want with many different options, Moze is stuck hopping in and out of Iron Bear spamming grenades praying she doesn’t run out.

That’s a good point about staying back. Usually the only time I get downed as moze is because an enemy got up right in my face (maliwan dogs, stealth troopers) and instadown me while I’m using a kyb’s or throwing nades. It’s super annoying that she can’t play up in their face because of splash.

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Exactly why she needs at least Splash Damage Resistance.

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Builds that use SSB and Scorching RPMs to boost shortfuse might have a hard time working with your proposed changes.

I’d really like to see a stacking overall damage resistance skill that increased on splash damage. That would synergise well with vampyr and the SoR skills.

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Good catch, I didn’t even think about Short Fuse + SSB / Scorching RPMs but to the point of changing SSB to Shield of Retribution would be that it is now Tier 1 and your choice to progress is either SSB for Short Fuse Damage or Armored Infantry for Gun Damage. It would also give a reason to consider Shield of Retribution instead of most builds just using Demolition Woman and Bottomless Mags

For your skill idea would it be something like the changed Explosive Punctuation but it stacks Damage Resistance instead of Cooldown?

hm, i dont know
i see bottomless as the weakest tree since it can basically be replaced by…picking up ammo xD
and shield of retribution is kinda the way to go for moze . thats probably a bit of an issue, balancewise. the damage is just too good and the 1 hp and tons of shield tree way is also kinda super tanky

the thing that i would change about her the most, would be removing all those fire damage multipliers. i just dont like to be fixed on a single element and luckily there is a way to build her without spending points in a single of these skills but it also invalidates a lot of class mods for me. (w/e i am using bloodletter anyway)

i think it would be cool to give the bottomless tree a bit more motivation to be picked by placing a sustain skill in there like some kind of increased lifesteal the longer she keeps shooting
this would motivate to pick high magazine weapons and use the ammo regeneration of this tree, while also giving her awesome synergies with other builds like 1 hp bloodletter

and the only thing, really wrong with shields is the capstone, since its basically useless when playing a 1 hp build and i think, noone but those level 1 stop gap people are even using it^^

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Perhaps something like Click Click but it gives you lifesteal instead of extra damage and the ammo regeneration would help you stay at relatively empty magazine so you would get a bigger bonus.

i would think of it a bit like a timer
like you get 2% life steal for each second, holding the trigger or for amount of bullets shot, caping at 20% after 10 seconds/100 shots and fastly decaying when she stops shooting
this way, she would benefit from weapons like shredifier and infinity but also fastly reloading weapons, trying to keep up the maximum life steal
and also you could call this skill don’t stop :3

Reminds me of Anarchy but you lose your stack from not shooting rather than reloading. One thing to be wary of is that Zane is next to invincible with 3% Lifesteal because you do a lot more damage than you have health, so maybe switching it to Health Regeneration might be a safer bet.

yea, health regen would also work. it might even make more sense, kinda glorifying the playstyle of spraying everywhere and falling into ecstasis
i this case i would probably base it on bullet count :smiley:

How does this sound?

Rushin’ Offensive

After firing a shot Moze gains a stack of Don’t Stop. For every stack Moze gains Health Regeneration. The faster you fire the faster you gain stacks. If no shots have been fired in 5 second all stacks are removed. Don’t Stop stacks are quickly lost while in “Fight for Your Life”.
Moze can sprint and shoot at the same time.

At 1/1
Health Regeneration: +0.1 per stack
Maximum stacks: 100

I want to add duration so you don’t just sit in a corner before a boss for 5 minutes farming stacks like you would with Gaige.

i would not remove all stacks at stopping. especially not with 100 stacks
that would be very frustrating and also wouldnt benefit fast reload speed
i would make it fastly decaying like anarchy in ffyl

want to add duration so you don’t just sit in a corner before a boss for 5 minutes farming stacks like you would with Gaige.

thats why i would not make as many stacks
building something up like anarchy was really frustrating when losing it and didnt really make it a fast paced enjoyable gameplay
more like a mmorpg farming game xD
just make like 20 stacks and it wont be too op and also losing them very fast
like, with a reload time of 5 seconds, its all gone

I was thinking it would work more like Fl4k’s Furious Attack so it would stack very quickly with fast fire rate weapons but decay fast so you would want to use the Ammo Regeneration skills or have a huge magazine. 20 stacks seems too small because most guns could match that. The flavor of the skill could be that Moze gets adrenaline while firing so… Health Regeneration.

yea, if it stacks really fast like i dont know, 1 stack for each shot or each 2 bullets, something like this, it would be fine
lets just say, it should take you like 20 seconds or a magazine of 100 to reach max stacks and it would remove all your stacks to stop shooting for 5 seconds

Yeah, basically. Would reward close aggressive play, and then escape to reload and regroup.