Moze skill update suggestions. Build variety 101

Hello Moze peoples. I’m putting forth some suggestions on how to make Moze a more well-rounded Vault Hunter. A lot of people may not see it but I feel that Moze(and Zane in his own way) are currently lagging slightly behind in comparison to FL3K and Amara in regards to damage, survivability and build variety.

Feel free to add your own suggestions and help me tighten up my own. This could be a fun thought excercise on how to make Moze more fun and unique.

Here we go!

NOTE: For simplistically sake,“most” of the following descriptions merely added an small effect to an already existing skill except where otherwise noted.

Edit-I considered switching Vampyr and Pull the Holy Pins Tiers so to make Vampyr’s healing s little more accessable to the other trees(would have been tier 3 instead of tier 4) but I ultimately decided against it due to the fact that I added small amounts of varying survivability and sustain in the other trees.

Edit-Cut a lot of the drunken ramble out and corrected spellings and removed curse words.


-Stainless Steel Bear(5/5/) Now grants Moze 1% Damage Reduction per point. Max 5% Damage Reduction at 5/5.

*A tiny flavor tweak to a Tier 1 skill that could stack with other survival skills. Nuanced, balanced and fits the theme of safety and security.

-Auto Bear (1/1) Auto Bear can now optionally be instantly deployed to targetted location by briefly holding the AS button down… Auto Bears duration is still 15 seconds.

*This would keep the optional playstyle that a lot of us have already gotten use to(pre-buff Bear). It’s an interesting alternative way to use Iron Bear and a great way to focus on triggering AS Anointments.

Okay, next one is just for fun but I couldn’t ‘bear’ to leave it out. I literally see about a 0.001% chance of this ever happening but damnit man, just imagine!

-Unbearable Rage(1/1) Tier 5 New Skill) Requires Autobear as prerequisite: Iron Bear can now be deployed via digistruct and then airdropped at targeted location within medium range by briefly holding the AS button down. Iron Bear plummets to the ground like a scud missile in a spectacular nuclear storm that does moderate Rad, Fire and some tickling Shock damage(of course!) on impact. This effect causes knock-back on all nearby enemies. After the Autobear timer is up, Iron Bear goes on a +60 second cooldown.

“Take that Nuke”!

***All in all, the Demolition tree is pretty well done. Its a tad bland however it does support the other skill trees nicely.

Okay, back too it but for real this time!

Bottomless Mags

-Matched Set(5/5) Now additionally grants Moze a 0.5% Damage Reduction bonus per point per matching piece of gear.

“Looking fly while I watch things die.”

*Adds some flavor, some slight damage mitigation and fits thematically. Since this skill is stackable 4 matching peices would set Moze at 10% DR. After all it’s only a Tier 1.

-Redistribution(1/1) On critical hit Moze now regens 15% of Maximum Health over the next 10 seconds. Does not stack Does not function while in Iron Bear. Has internal cooldown of 20 seconds.

“One for you, two for me, two for me, two for me”.

-Rushin Offensive(1/1) Zane now also gains the ability to sprint and shoot.


-Click, Click…(3/3)Moze gains additional Gun Damage the longer she is damaging an enemy. The longer she damages an enemy, the greater the increase. This ability immediately resets when she fails tondo damage.

*Gun Damage: up to 30% at 3/3.

Lowered the amount of bonus Gun Damage since it’s now Infinitely easier to activate. The current version of this skill feels counter intuitive to the entire BM tree.

-Forge(1/1) Forge now grants Moze’ allies half the amount of Forges ammo regen(2.5%)

“Let’s git it!”

Shield of Retribution tree

-Security Bear(1/1) Players standing adjacent to Iron Bear receive +3% of Missing Health per second and also grants a -10% Shield Recharge Delay. *This skill functions with Auto Bear.

*A small yet useful Tier 1 buff.

-Armored Infantry (5/5) Damage Reduction +6% per point(from 3), to a max 30%.

*C’mon Amara has a basically perpetual 45% damage reduction at Tier 2! Why the stingy?

-Behind the Iron Curtain(3/3) Shield Recharge Rate is now +15% per point and Shield Recharge Delay is -11% with a max of +45%/-33% at 3/3.

*Current numbers are pitiable, especially for a Tier 4 skill(and the third point appears to not even scale correctly).

***SoR tree I feel is one of the most unique and interesting trees(Imho, it is right up there with the Pre-Sequel trees…almost…). Unfortunately, it currently feels narrow and is tunnel visioned on the around Bloodletter. With the adjustments I am suggesting, I’m hoping to make SoR skill tree slightly more accessable to Bottomless Mags and Demolition Woman to dip into for optional survivability, variety and simply for fun.

Would changes like these or similar to help Moze have better build variety? Or are we forever doomed to Tediore chucking, Transformer gimmicks and repetitive grenade tossing to be viable in high end content?

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I think she’s great :blush:

Me too. I absolutely love her.

Are you happy with the way she currently performs? Are you okay with her overwhelming reliance on a Tier 4 skill to make nearly every build function?

Also, what difficulty do you play on?

Just curious to get some discussion going.


I did a rundown on a different post, but I like where she is at so I’m probably not the best to start this off lol

I’m almost done with beating the game in M4 and I have enjoyed it. Usually when I die, I did something dumb because I was cocky. M4 tends to be unforgiving as it should be.

I like Moze. She keeps me on my toes. If I get lazy she shows me. GL man!

My issue is not with beating the game. Im worried about game longevity, build variety and worried that some classes(Moze) are being pidgeoned into gimmicky ways to survive(Transformers Shield/Shoot self in foot for example) because they only have one sustain skill, while other classes have the ability to play with a wider variety of sustain skills.

Even Zane is pretty good as far as HP and particularly shield sustain goes.

Out of curiosity do you mind briefly mentioning your build, shield and weapons?

I think if they look deep into the shield of retribution tree they can come up with decent changes for the whole character, some really nice sustain on tier 1 and 2 and a good capstone to make her tanky, the whole SOR tree is about gun damage and a capstone that doesnt work with the the rest of the tree’s idea. Maybe throw some sustain in the other trees, but thats just asking for way too much, they spent 2 months to begin changes to iron bear and its still miles frmo being fixed. A simple change in the SoR is enogh to make almost everyone happy and give Moze the build diversity she needs.

Honestly she seems fine. I can regularly clear Slaughter Shafts in mayhem 3 now.

They just need to fix some of the skill bugs… like Desperste Measures not applying to Iron bears right arm, whatever the hell is going on with Vampyre, the messed up stainless steel bear , the gunner grenade annointment that stops working, etc

Not sure about Mayhem 4 though. I dont play it because the jump from 200% shields and armor to 1000% is waaaaaay too abrupt and steep with the current number of skill points we have

The M3 is a kindergarten compared to the m4. In m3, you don’t feel mobs damage because you kill them quickly. In m4 they can focus and demolish 100k IB armor in a second. So, the only class that feels good right now is zane, because he can actually be invulnerable and he took good damage. I would single out more flak because he can translate aggression to his immortal pet. Amara wins through her mobility and control. Moze is really not in the best shape right now, because all she can do is damage. But all classes can do damage. She needs more tricks beyond damage.

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I use a lot of different weapons, my build is pretty different than the rest, but my strategies in fights, I think, separate my experience more than most. It might be easier for me to stream or something to explain it. I’m just too lazy to type it all out lol. I can workout a time if you’re interested and I can run you through what I do. Let me know.