Moze's new class mod feels busted, and not in the good way

So I recently got a buddy to hook me up with a shiny new Green Monster for Moze build I’d been fantasizing about since I saw the leak, and I gotta say, I’m rather disappointed. The class mod either sucks or it’s completely busted. I notice no increase to my damage as I permanently fire my Lucian’s Call or my Butcher, and no green numbers show up as I spray hundreds of projectiles across my screen (which is what I’m assuming would happen while dealing bonus corrosive damage). Please, I hope I’m wrong about this Moze build just sucking. Any further insight would be much appreciated.

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It’s working for me: this is a (fire) Magnificent, and those green numbers start popping up after a moment. They are hard to tell from the other ones though - way less contrast between element damage numbers than BL2.

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I’ll have to take another look, it’s very possible I could just be missing the damage numbers and I’m not noticing the increased damage due to me being on Mayhem 4.

Sort of unrelated but can we talk about the fact that Click, Click and Forge both still suck pretty hard? Like Click, Click completely counters the idea of Bottomless Mags and Forge is just super underwhelming for a capstone imo…

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Forge is one of my favourite capstones. Though I think it should have some sort of heat bonus for CoV weapons. And I certainly wouldn’t eschew any other buffs.

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Does the bonus corrosive damage increase from Infinity? Wondering on the cap with corrosive damage

Sure: I don’t personally care for Click Click unless I’m using gear that makes it easy to sort of sustain at a low magazine size (and neither of my Mozes are built/loaded that way), but I guarantee that if I let either of them use CoV gear, I’d be all over that skill.

One of them, however, is a Vladof allegiance, and Forge is definitely a game changer… turns most of her weapons into almost infinite ammo (weapons with shallower magazines just mean I have to let up on the trigger sometimes).

I think that new class mod (especially in my Vladof Moze’s hands who can sustain fire for seriously long times to take advantage of it) is outstanding, though it helps that the one I use is only a couple of effects away from being god-roll for me.

heh - am going to be testing this here shortly.

edit - it does work, but it looks like there’s a damage cap. Corrosive adds start at 6 damage and peaks at 465 (for a radiation Infinity doing around 600 damage a shot). There’s some slop in the numbers, as I almost literally cannot tell the difference between stacked fire, rad, and corrosive damage numbers (and don’t want to re-spec to control those variables for this simple test), but yeah - Infinity makes this easy.

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My whole thing with forge is if your not using a 100+ mag Vladof then it basically does nothing, another problem is that a lot of Vladof ARs cough Shredifier cough just suck in my experience.

I’m interested in the gear you use for your Vladof Moze. I was experimenting with an infinite ammo build and love the Lucian’s in that, I just don’t know what else to use that’s Vladof.

Has anyone tried this with a Boomer? It seems like it would be a good weapon for Moze although I haven’t tried it with any com combinations yet.

the coms works fine but the scaling on it is hot garbage something like 7.5% extra corro damage

Yeah as a side note, I wish there was more contrast. Especially in the heat of battle it’s sometimes kinda hard to determine what type of dot is going on.

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Cryo and Shock and Kinetic are also a tad too similar :sob::joy:

Lets not forget Rad

The Amara mod seems broken as well!

OP as usual?

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they also apparently stealth nerfed phasezerker

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They really really don’t though I understand why so many people think they do.

Not really. There’s nothing saying Bottomless Mags is only about the ability to have bullet hose weapons running infinite ammo, though that’s certainly a part of it.

It’s also about

  • Torgue Stickies and the number of them you can get stuck to a target before they detonate and can still run low on ammo.
  • CoV weapons which you can’t give “infinite ammo” so still run themselves down over time.

The problem with Forge is that it’s exploitable because of CoV weapons. Put on a CoV weapon, go make yourself a coffee, come back and you have some ammo to work with again. If forge gave a larger percentage it would become a problem.

Otherwise it’s best use is as the straw that broke the camel’s back; that one little effect that has large outcomes. While it’s not hard to get a shredifier to the level of infinite bullet hose, 15% regen on top of clip size expansion can make a lot of weapons perform a lot better even if the ammo isn’t infinite.

So, to put these two skills together.

We take a Carbuncle (Torgue Alien Barrel Pistol) and expand the hell out of it’s mag. We then max regen. We then consider the ammo usage

It can take up to 6 ammo per shot on a standard clip of 5. It won’t, however, reload unless it gets to 0 ammo and there’s a small break between hitting zero and reloading.

So we also put on a Transformer for the 40% chance to eat enemy bullets and put them back into our clip and because it’s a splash gun we also make sure we have Means of Destruction.

We can now keep Click, Click under the boundary necessary for +36% damage for up to 12 or 13 shots on occasion just by putting a single round back in the mag to prevent it from reloading giving us a nice hard-target killing solution. Not only do we have that 36% bonus the whole time from Click Click, we’re also planting max stickies for the Carbuncle to boost itself with.

Now do the same trick with a Flakker…. Yep, there’s the reason they changed the mag size to 1 - so regen couldn’t get this job done just as reliably as MoD could. then, of course, they had to drop it’s ammo usage to 1 because Shotguns don’t have the large ammo pool that Pistols do so the Flakker got kind of useless.

Yes, it sucks your pistol ammo dry quite quickly but there’s other weapons that benefit strongly from this setup; the Carbuncle is just the extreme example.

Click Click is also great for jumping out of IB for 5 seconds of free ammo and unloading a +75% per gyrojet Quickie - It’s no coincidence it sits right next to “Some for the Road”. It’s basically a skill for Sticky ammo where the idea is to empty your mag on planting stickies then switch over to impact mode to let the gyrojets detonate. It’s an incredibly powerful skill when used this way but most people only really talk about it on bullet hoses to get ammo low and then fire in spurts to keep it there.

Using a Mindsweeper COM can see hits of over a million being generated from the micro grenades. Hell, occasionally you can get 7-10 million point hits on the test dummy at Marcus’ using a purple fire Stranger but it’s unlikely to get that in the actual field. It can make a lot of badasses in Anvil kind of evaporate tho if using the right damage type.

Of course you need to take Scrappy to reduce the recoil on Torgue weapons (which also increases mode switch and weapon switch spends, again aimed at Torgue Sticky ammo) to maximise crits, another skill many people clock up as ‘useless’.

This new CoM seems squarely aimed at Infinite ammo bullet hose builds with a side order of CoV because you can’t stop those from heating up (making Click, Click useful).

I understand why a lot of people don’t like some of these skills; they’re a bit… unclear… on how to make the best use of them. They aren’t however, all about making infinite bullet hoses.

I don’t expect any of this to stop making people wish they were different anymore of course but they do serve a purpose that some of us will be sad to see go. That’s going to make it hard to argue for change if some of us are saying they’re useless but others of us are using it to wipe out entire spawns in nothing flat.

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Depends on the rest of your skills but:

  • Pushdugs (Alien barrel pistols) come with clips large enough to power for quite a long time but not infinitely without a boatload of prep. They also pair well with Splash skills.
  • Faisors have a splash-based under barrel shotgun that you can power for a very long time. If you run out of ammo they just switch back to the normal firing mode and don’t reload so work well with the Blast Master com.
  • Ogres come in 2x, pair well with Splash and can also be powered infinitely.
  • Numerous heavy weapons have clips that aren’t uncommon of 18ish, over 20 isn’t unheard of.

The reason Splash works so well in infinite ammo builds is not branching to the Demolition woman tree but that it is relatively easy to get a +28% splash bonus on your COM and a +33% AoE damge bonus on your Relic. Both are universal across all your splash weapons and at least one is also multiplicative (never tested it myself, I’m not that keen). If you can get a generic weapon bonus or vladoff crit bonus along side those two it gets very powerful.

After that, of course, Fire in the Skag Den is only 5 points.

I mentioned the Boomer a few posts up… I was playing around with it today and it’s also a splash based Dahl smg… seems to work pretty well for Moze.