Moze's *Running on Fumes* should be any status effect

I mean, I get they had a theme of fire with Moze. Not a terrible thing, but forcing the capstone to be fire element based kinda kills hope for versatility when it comes to damage types. After all, versatility with the Vault Hunters we have was supposedly a key element of their design process as well as a major reason they decided to not add DLC VHs later down the line. Most of the new Bear Mother tree can work around Incendiary damage and proc on ANY status effect, from what I understand. However, several key skills, including the capstone, NEED fire as the element.

What do the rest of you think? I realize it is VERY low on the list of concerns of ideas regarding the, uh… most recent update… but if you have an opinion on the capstone of the reliance on Incendiary I’m down to hear it.

Ok actually no the best reason for that is if you run non fire stuff u can have a fire grenade proc it and keep that fuel refill fresh. Trust me once you learn how to manipulate that you will NOT want it to be any status

I don’t understand how that makes me not want it to proc with any status effect. If it is any status effect than that grenade could be any element that I want AND my weapons could be any element that I want. If you run non fire gear then you don’t need to constantly chuck out a grenade every 6 seconds to keep it going. You just… keep it going. No need to act like an MMO player timing their buttons to maximize their rotation.

I fail to see how your method provides any benefit compared to procing it with any status. Is there something I’m not not understanding about what you said?

The key thing is a skill tree runs on synergy. You spec into a certain skills, which feed into others. Clearly this tree is themed around doing incendiary dot damage, and Moze has 5 or so different ways to proc Incendiary damage (and Iron Bear has a few ways) without needing to actually use that element. I’m not so sure if the capstone is strong enough to justify the restriction, but from a design standpoint, I don’t see anything wrong with it.


Go try it with salamander. Because it shows the skill constantly active it should be you have 100% fuel at all times right? Nope and then because of that the fuel restore skill thats from fire damage because unless fast because of massive diminishing returns right. The reason you want it fire for those skills is so the diminishing returns and ineffectiveness of the final skill when its to much fire doesn’t mess up.
Plus it would be a bit busted to just never spend any fuel at all ever from any status effect.

Fair point, I suppose. Synergy is important, but, IMO, allowing that synergy to not be limited to fire allows more potential in dealing with non-flesh, fire resistant enemies. Just kinda seems like a handicap on versatility. I suppose Moze can just swap to a non-elemental damage weapon in that case…

I will say, judging by my brief time running Iron Cub, the 6 seconds of no fuel use is actually pretty strong given how fast Cub pops out after a summon. Might be a different story once I get past level 29.

Put the proc on a cooldown. After it has proced once it can’t be proced again for 12 seconds or something.

Wait you aren’t even max level and making actual builds for moze… that explains literally EVERYTHING just wait youll see. There is a reason nobody is actually complaining

Well, tbf a tree should work also when you level your character. Not everything is endgame.

1 point in FiTSD and any splash weapon or grenade will proc a fire dot. And given 80% of Moze builds use splash weapons and will spec into FiTSD, its much less of an issue than you think. For non-splash weapons, Moze still had Short Fuse - which will too proc FiTSD. And even if you decide to somehow completely avoid the Blue Tree (which is very rare because FiTSD is so strong), Cloud of Lead and Experimental Munitions will have you covered.

IMO your recommendation to give it an internal cooldown will heavily diminish its value of the skill.

That makes a lot of sense. Also, looking over the skill trees again, there is Cloud of Lead which I imagine could help with non Splash builds (like my current one).
I really appreciate the insight. I’m not much of a Moze main (couldn’t you tell? lol) so it’s nice to hear from people on how things can get rolling and how people feel about a character I am not too intimate with.

As for the internal cooldown, that was just a suggestion in case it really was “busted” as was mentioned. Based on what y’all are saying, I’m assuming it isn’t. I’m certainly not too keen on giving it a cooldown.

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Actually tbh I find myself killing enemies so fast the fire dot doesn’t even activate. Only see it consistently activate from just a fire grenade I personally use epicenter but of course many others work too.

If you’re going down the purple tree, you can activate Big Surplus (the incendiary bonus skill in the first row) with one point in Grizzled (first row of blue tree) while Iron Cub is active. That will give you a consistent source of fire damage when you need it even if you’re using non-elemental and non-splash weapons.

Normally i agree with you; but isnt big surplus only active while iron cub is cooling down (IE; not active)? (If grizzled counts for this i mustt not be paying enough attention)
1 point into blue tree covers any splash, or 11 points down red tree would handle any non splash sources

Are you saying that putting one point in grizzled gives big surplus 100% uptime? I’m not sure I follow.

@Steeveyb @cailte
Getting a kill with Grizzled forces the cooldown to activate even when the action skill is in use. I tested this when the patch rolled out and unless I’ve gone mad, I saw it work. It worked with Rocketeer so I assumed it would work with IC. (Headcount and Gamma Burst used to work in a similar way when I did a campaign with FL4K.)

It won’t give you 100%, in practice, because you’ll eventually fully cool down the skill in certain areas by getting kills (like Slaughter Shaft) and you can’t redeploy IC like you can IB, but it lets you use IC along with BS for some time.

After a brief test BS does not activate after a kill; it does refund a little though (in regards to iron cub); in regards to rocketeer it makes sence as being auto bear, it starts cooldown on exit

  • also had a friend try it - same results
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Rocketeer is autobear so the skill is on cooldown as soon as you exit the bear, not active. It’s always worked this way to where you can get the cooldown back before rocketeer(autobear) ends.


I’m confused now because I’m 99% sure it worked when I tried it on Sanctuary (I used the vehicles) after the patch. Maybe the second patch removed it or I’m delusional.

Sorry about the misinformation.

Does the rocketeer interact with Iron cub in any way? I ask because I levelled a new Moze for Another build and picked up a rocketeer com and my dps shot up. I couldn’t explain it.

Thing is setting things on fire for Moze is not too difficult as Skag Den and E Munition exists.