Multiplayer balance is killing single player experience

Levelling takes too long, and I think it’s it’s because of multiplayer balance. I’m at level 51, and I’ve played for HOURS against tough enemies who can kill me easily, but I’ve barely gained a notch of experience. It seems I have to play HUNDREDS of hours to get from level 50 to level 70, and this isn’t fun. It’s tedious.

If future gearbox games are tailored towards multiplayerer-over-single-player, I won’t buy them. This is ridiculous. I have played for a DOZEN hours on “True adventurer” mode and I’ve barely made progress to level 52. I’m ready to give up on this franchise.

Tell me why I’m wrong!

You are not. The amount of experience needed to level up is stupid, but if you play as an enjoyable character, this wouldn’t be so tedious.

1- Who are you using?
2- What’s your build?
3- What level is your gear?

As I’m now playing a new Zero in TVHM (currently level 45), I can say it’s only tough if you are still reletively new to the game and don’t quite have a great familiarity of what your character does best and how to get it from them. Also, I’d guess that you might be holding on to underleveled gear as well- let it go and sell/replace it with whatever you’re finding now…

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If you are playing on TVHM at lvl 51 you won’t gain much XP try starting UVHM and see if it helps. I might be wrong tho.


I agree. I’d still buy it although, but if BL3 have any focus on multiplayer then I’ll be quite disappointed. I hope that Battleborn will be enough experience for them to realize that meta of PvP game requires as much consistency as possible in order to make tactical and strategical play viable. If you cannot predict and anticipate what opponent is going to do then countering him is impossible, which means that the game is not competitive. The game would be just about building a superior character and not paying attention to other players. If you want a competitive game then you have to keep it simple enough to make reading opponents possible and make succesful reads rewarding, hence creating basis for tactics and strategies. But maybe Gearbox have different idea about term “competitive”? Well, I’ve played few games whose aren’t balanced, but stil they comes in terms for having some consistencies. For example, Half-Life multiplayer, despite it’s so unbalanced, yet the fact is that Tau cannon allows flying around freely and take control over the entire map, which made it into pillar of meta.

Yes, I play Borderlands for building my character. That’s why I want it to stay solely as SP game, because that way the game can go all the way to make it as silly as possible without making someone angry.

A brilliant observation that I totally missed. Oy vey… :grin:

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In order to keep the XP rewards high, you MUST skip all of the side missions. If you level too far past the story missions, then you’re stuck grinding side missions where each enemy gives you < 5XP when you need to gain 1 Million to level (Yet they can still kill you pretty easily). Why isn’t the game properly balanced for this? If you start a mission at level 50, the mission should be adjusted for level 50 difficulty, but it isn’t.

I just want to have a half-filled skill tree. I don’t think I’ll ever get a character past level 60. This is just too much work.

There is a mode called Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode (UVHM).

On my characters, I like to use the XP relic (I forget which quest gives it as a reward). It’s especially nice in UVHM.

Go to the Main Menu (the one with your character) and press the button necessary to change your character. Select the character you want, the one you want to level in this case, and choose to enter UVHM.
All enemies are scaled to the host’s level which would be you and so are missions. The very first mission (you start at Liar’s Berg) gives a lot of exp and you can always reset UVHM (by selecting the character and when given the choice to enter UVHM you can reset it. The appropriate button is at the bottom of the Mode Selection box) unlike the other playthroughs and keep repeating your favorite missions at the cost of having to replay the story again.
It’s up to you how to approach it and there’s enough content to 60 with the main game and some DLCs, not sure how much you’d gain if you were to do absolutely everything. Torgue Campaign of Carnage has the Bar Brawl Tier 3 which gives out a fair amount of exp per success and a lot from the enemies you will have to fight and you can repeat it as many times as you want.

Bring some Slag guns in case your character has no easy Slag access (Magic Missiles from DLC4 are THE solution) as Slag now lasts longer and adds 3x multiplicative damage for any non-Slag guns (Slag instead receive 1.5x) and use guns close to your level. Unfortunately you started a bit late so you won’t have 51 guns but a 1 Level difference isn’t as bad as some say.


I respectfully disagree completely with OP.

I remember an interview with Randy around the time when they were releasing the first dlc.
That he said with the shift accounts they can track players progress. And why this matters is because at that time he said (I think the number was around) 80% of players never made it past Level 30.
Now at those levels the game is pretty balanced no matter what way you slice it.
and the people who have made it to 50 were also the people who at the same time as the 80% at 30 the people at 50 already had multiple characters at 50.
So with that all said the majority of those people were also on these forums every day asking for more content and levels and harder content.

So. Like I said I fully disagree Multiplayer balance does not kill the game for single player experience.
Higher level balance kill the experience for people who are thinking the enemies will at some point plateau in hardness like most games.

The higher the levels the harder it gets.

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Seems like a few replies here missed this:

That’s my understanding too - after you reach L50 in TVHM, XP gain is severely nerfed. I think enemies and gear will generally only scale up to L50 in TVHM, so if you went much higher and then started UVHM your gear would be underleveled compared to UVHM enemies which scale with the player’s level. This is probably the reason why the XP gain is nerfed, since underleveled gear in UVHM can be a really big problem.

So definitely you can question scaling in single vs multi, but it’s unlikely to be the OP’s actual issue, which seems to be the post-L50 XP nerfing in TVHM.


Correct and this below by BlackHeartVNoire Yuki

The Bar room brawl done in TVHM may give some decent XP and the Ancient Dragons the same but as you level up that XP gets less and Less. TVHM will only get you to 50 - 53. UVHM was made for the ones that wanted more Levels and Harder mobs and Raid Bosses.

as for single vs multi, the only difference I can see between the two, is Multi gives more Enemies, at maybe a little higher level, then single player. (more players , so game makes it harder, what would be the point if the game left the mobs at the single player level)

The faster you level up, the sooner you will have to dump your current gear. What is the hurry in leveling up?! There is so much to do anyways. No offense, but to me it’s nonsense. I’m always trying to not level up so rapidly so I can enjoy better the items that I have and the current gameplay.


The leveling up in the game is fine. I was practically at level 72 by the time I finished UVHM, without even having to grind for it or farm too much. From my experience, it works as intended and it felt pretty balanced. I never noticed any of the balancing issues some people freak out about every once in a while. The balance between multiplayer and single player is fine to me and the game’s spikes in difficulty with every new game mode unlocked work as intended.

The notion that you need to skip all of the side missions to level up properly is nonsense. I never did it and had no problems leveling up at all. As other people mentioned already, the problem is you’re probably still in TVHM after reaching level 50. You’re not gonna get much experience if you stay there. Finish the story in TVHM (if you haven’t yet) and start a new playthrough in UVHM to continue leveling up properly. Once you’re in UVHM, all of the missions and enemies will be adjusted to your level. Also, like orion5666 mentioned, if you leveled up too fast, all of your gear would be rendered completely useless in a matter of hours. Now that is what I would call a balancing issue. Borderlands 2 just isn’t a game you’re supposed to rush through.


At level 51, you should still gain a decent amount of experience against level 50 enemies, but you won’t get much at all against enemies that are at or below about level 47. The game gives reward penalties if you are too powerful, because it’s not supposed to be that easy. Another level or two and even the level 50 enemies will start to give out less and less reward until you basically stop leveling completely. I did this, and lasted until level 54… and it started sucking badly. Ultimate mode is a lot more fair, even though it’s a bit more difficult at the same time.

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The game adjusts to the number of players. So, more players = more enemies / more difficult enemies = more experience. Since you are playing solo, multiplayer balance isn’t a factor unless you are using the “4 player gate trick”. At this point you are level 51, still in TVHM and fighting “tough enemies who can kill [you] easily”. I would be interested to know what equipment and skills you are using; in particular the level of your equipment. Generally speaking, equipment won’t last more than 4 or 5 levels.

You won’t level up quicker until you enter UVHM where enemies scale with your level. However, if you are currently having trouble with TVHM it will only get more difficult in UVHM. In UVHM, enemies have more health and regenerate health. It is very important to make sure your equipment is at level, you can Slag enemies (Slagged enemies take 3x damage in UVHM) and the skills you use are viable in UVHM. Some characters have skills that are viable in Normal or TVHM but are no longer viable in UVHM. You could use the following link to generate a link that will show us what your current build looks like:

Doing so might help us recommend skills you should / should not be using.

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Alright, thank you for the replies and suggestions, guys. (I hadn’t yet passed the game on TVHM mode, so I didn’t know about UVHM mode - oops!) XP gains seem fair now.

UVHM is ridiculous. The enemy HP and HP regen is insane. You MUST use slag and you MUST commit to your targets and you MUST scavenge crates to keep your ammo stocks healthy - and I love it.

Thank you.