Multiplicative and additive skills questions?


#1
  1. So I know some skills are multiplicative and some are additive, but I don’t know what this means exactly. I know the multiplicative ones are better (Killing Bl0w, Money Shot, critical hits), but I am having a little trouble understanding why. Anyone care to show me the math behind this?

  2. I know some skills that reduce cooldown rate–specifically, Maya’s Quicken and Axton’s Resourceful skills–have diminishing returns. Why is that?

  3. What skills are additive and what skills are multiplicative?

  4. I am under the impression that most of Axton’s skills are additive. Is this the reason he’s not that great at dealing damage, despite his plethora of damage skills?


(Where's lucky?) #2

That is a topic I made that I think should answer your questions on add vs multi

Now diminishing returns is because there is only one cooldown buff so its always additive and anything additive is diminishing.

I’ll show you why

Lets say you have a gun with 100 damage and 4 different 20% buffs

100 x (1 + 20%) = 120

That is a strait 20% buff, now add another 20% in

100 x (1 + 20% + 20%) = 140

Great 40% but since you already were at 120 you didn’t increase another 20% but only 16%. A full 20% buff would be 144.

This always is in play while you stack buffs, works the same way with cooldown. I go over this in the thread as well and it was a big issue with axton. All of his damage skills were the same so they stacked and each one you stacked became that much weaker.


(Action Hank) #3

Well I wouldn’t say that additive buffs to damage are DIMINISHING. They just come from the base damage which is fine.

Back to OP
Things like Cooldown though, the diminish works in that… Well it’s made this way to prevent 100% cooldowns of things.

Let’s say you get a skill that reduces the cooldown by half. Your cooldown is now 50%. Now put on ANOTHER skill that reduces it by half. Every additional reduction in time actually reduces the time that’s left over. So two separate, 50% reductions in cooldown would bring the total to 25%.

IT works the same way with shield recharge delays and reload speeds. Anything that makes a gap smaller and smaller is usually diminishing. While anything that just adds and adds onto something, is usually just straight adding to it or multiplying it.


#4

100 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = (100 * 1) + (100 * 0.2) + (100 * 0.2) = 100 + 20 + 20,

Where each 20 is the 20% of 100 bonus.

About diminishing returns, as far as I know is about the function’s growth rate being closer to something like a logarithmic curve.


(Where's lucky?) #5

100 x (1 + 20% + 20%) = 140%
100 x (1 + 20%) * (1 + 20%) = 144%

Not equal, additive has diminishing, multiplicative does not. It goes both ways.


#6

Your example’s equation is an affine function (it’s curve is a straight line), how can that be diminishing returns?