Musings on minions getting stronger

Just my opinions here.

Which I doubt this is true, but if it is, it is an incredibly bad idea. And to my limited knowledge of MOBAs this is not the case at all. If I just wanted to mindlessly kill AI I would play the story mode. At least there they are smarter, an actual threat, and have diversity. Killing the same 5 minions as they walk and do the exact same thing over and over again is a horrible thing to propose as the “main event” in a mode.

Let me just mindlessly wail on these constantly overshielded minions for 5 minutes as an exp deprived melee Assassin as the enemy Toby sits back in his base and body shots me for over 400 damage, killing my massively underleved self and then proceeding to to clear the wave as he 2 shots each minion.

Sounds like a lot of fun for melee characters whom are designed to do nothing but kill players. Thus why characters like Rath sucks ball at PvE.


You know another way to keep minions alive? Have no opposing Battleborn alive to kill them, or at least almost kill them so they have to leave the lane. Minionborn sounds about as fun as the Turrentborn the DEVs talked about in the past.

And as a PvE player I will tell you it will not. And just like previous patches, and even more so with this one, I can tell you they hate the universal change more than you PvP types do.

Then they could have just added them back along with the minion buff, as opposed to screwing over characters reliant on AoE skills like OM in PvE.

I don´t know about that. When I remember correctly the Shepard-minions had no issue with their damage or healthpool, but the problem was that they spawned in very short intervals after a Sentry went down, which made any kind of push-back pretty much impossible. (just recall it this way, could be wrong here)
This occured after one of the first hotfixes, and for many players it was a gamebreaker.

That GBX removed them completely for so long could be an indication that the problem is moe complicated than it seems from the outside.
If this problem is rooted somewhere deep it might be hard to spot & remove.


Additional AI-enemies in a PvP-game are rare and for many players its the fist time they are confronted with such a concept. So in some cases it will not be expected. And unexpected new things are often dismissed while longed for at the same time. (New concepts and innovation are wanted, but often flop because of their unexpected innovative content. Happens all time.)

I think its completely a matter of taste - I really like this detail in BB, but I can understand those who feel otherwise.

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I meant all the minions still receiving the buff, not just the Shepards. And whatever the issue was they could have fixed it or went about this a different way. If it was changing the interval at which they spawned, then they could have done that.

But to dismiss those player that do understand how the modes work, this is a horrible slap to the face. And I’m pretty sure Gearbox even admitted that this issue arose more than likely from the fact that they made a bad Prologue in terms of preparing players for PvP.

And the worst part is how it alienates PvE players even more, as they could have taken the effort to actually come up with a fix that doesn’t screw us over for no reason. And by default it only made a handful of characters worse. This “universal” change was really an FU to Thorn, OM, WF, and El Dragon. Where’s the reduction to things like Toby’s AoE mine or Galilea’s Forsaken Grounds? This patch is just a ■■■■■■ excuse for them to be lazy and bring down powerful abilities without the community overreacting.

Plus some of the community’s responses to this patch and this change in specific are extremely selfish. I can not believe how selfish some of you all come off as. And it is blatantly obvious at @epicender584’s confession box: Your Unpopular Opinion. And you can read what I wrote to see that I just want to make the game better without shitting on anyone’s fun, and yeah it’s possible with a different mindset.

Toby’s mine can be destroyed easily. Galilea’s forsaken grounds is a joke (that not many choose). And as you said about OM, he’s reliant on that grenade. Yet he really shouldn’t be. He has a great aa. He can revive with ease. His ult is amazing. They fixed an outlier. WF… idk. Thorn was too strong with skills so they buffed the other half of her, her bow. El Dragõn was a separate issue. They nerfed every part of him. As for whether I agree with your point, idk. Seriously I have no idea.

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In my opinion, Gearbox to their credit have created a complicated game with lots of variables. The only prediction I feel relatively confident in making about the change is that it will make matches shorter, particularly when combined with the weakening of AOE.

I think it will also have the unintended consequence of exaggerating some of the perceived flaws the community has of the game, particularly matchmaking.

Will it stop the 5 player pain train in Meltdown as they stated was one of their goals? Possibly for more experienced teams at a higher skill level of play. But for new players and lower player skill levels and unbalanced matchups? I suspect, having been routed in the early stages of a match, it’s just going to enhance the frustration with something along the lines of “I’m getting stomped by enemy Battleborn, our character levels are out of whack as a result, and now I can’t even kill a lowly minion without pounding on it for 30 seconds and there’s a real chance it will kill me? Screw this game.”

With that in mind, I think I’ll make one other prediction. Comebacks will happen less which will eventually trickle to more early surrenders and players’ quitting. Why? If a team can’t handle the enemy battleborn, and it becomes progressively more difficult to kill minions for xp, then they are left with one method for xp, and that’s building. And with the stingy shard availability, that’s not a recipe for success.

I know we encourage debates here, and debates can be expected to get heated from time to time.

As such, I’m going to advise people remember to take periodic breaks and, if they feel they are getting too worked up in a topic, consult the forum rules every now and then.


As for the topic, we have less than 24 hours until the patch goes live - until then it’s all speculation and I’m pretty sure Gearbox will have been running the patch version “in-house” to test the implications, if they feel happy enough with it to make it public it should be interesting.

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What if, after your sentry is destroyed, enemy minions granted extra XP? That wld help with comebacks and early game stomps.
That way, say you get pubstomped in the first 5 mins of the game, your sentry goes down, the vote to surrender comes out, you grab your mic “Wait! We gain double xp now from minions we can turn this around into a real fight!”, vote is vetoed :wink: , match continues on into a sweet match of tug of war in most situations, an ecerybody hits those later levels an it all gets more interesting an you have a better to great time depending on your match.

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I don’t have a good answer. I think there are a lot of ways you could build a mechanic to balance things out as the match progresses (buildables prices change on a scale, scaling earned xp, etc.) But, I think that’s unlikely to ever happen. I think Meltdown has the best on-map design for scaling of all of the three modes. The grinders move farther away combined with not being able to build in an enemy’s zone. Incursion has the objective move, but you can build in the enemy’s zone, so you can more easily expand the territory you control and from where you can launch attacks on the objective. Capture? I think that mode is a FFA horror show though I respect that plenty of people really like it.

Kelvin is different because its not wave clears that keep him from minions; its the fact he loses almost all his hp trying to get one. That whole passive side of him is just bad.

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I think you missed my point. It’s that it’s not universal, you don’t have to tell me why the examples I picked are obsolete. The point is that they lied in order to cover up the fact why they choose to nerf these 4 skills/helix choices. I can list them all if you want. Things like Time Killer, Windfall, Wave Shock, Parting Gift, Preamble of Pain, Smoke Bomb, a decent chunk of the Ults in the game, ect…

Well get ready because it’s about to do more damage than Fragcendiary Grenade, a lot more when she gets to level 6.

… for PvE. Are you saying it’s fine this is happening to him because he relies on one of his SKILLS to be top tier in a cooperative mode? I don’t know what you’re thinking but I’ll just stop responding there, because it doesn’t sound thought out to say the least.

I don’t think that is what he’s saying. I think he’s saying the ease of using that one above average attack has caused people to overlook the other aspects of the characters kit.

Just like I’m a firm believer that the nerfs will not make Ghalt unplayable OM’s reduced noob tube will not destroy his playability.

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Solid first points.
But I don’t get what you’re getting at with the last. Yes PVE, as that’s the last part of your argument with Ganj that I easily responding to. My point was that he shouldn’t be relying on one helix level to make him a viable character when he has so many great qualitites.

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The minion waves in both Incursion and Meltdown are currently (pre-patch) a joke and most players seem to focus on killing enemy Battleborn than clearing waves. I’ve had many a game where my team won because the other team was focused on us and not the objectives. Maybe this will force more players to play an objective based game and not a team deathmatch one. This isn’t Overwatch, it’s Battleborn.

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Even though I doubt it will happen I hope the minions get so strong the weaker characters can’t handle them. Then we can see what happens with balance :slight_smile:

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If OM was nothing but a walking FG once every 16 seconds he’d be God awful. He is top tier because of the combination of his base kit and his helix. FG is a big part, but I love him for all three of his skills and his primary. Which again I wouldn’t love his primary as much if they reduced the bonus range his Scope gave him, and I wouldn’t love his Ult that much if they removed or reduced the effectiveness of Spacr Lasers.

And then you’d say “that it’s fine then and you still love and acknowledged the rest of his kit”, but it’s not the same and I don’t want to take it lying down. It will become “all of him is awesome… except his grenade”, because to be honest I even find Napalm to be lack luster as it is now.

I mean you can read what I wrote to Hobbit. But on this point plenty of characters are reliant on helixes in PvE. I personally can’t play Phoebe w/out Blade Sweep in PvE, I would not love Gally if she lost IDtGA, in minion maps Vortex is a massive game changer for her, I find Attikus to be a chore to play w/out Hedronic Regeneration, Clothesline is a PoS in PvE until you get Flailing Fist, ect…

So I do not think OM is nothing without FG, but it is a part of him and it happens to be one of the bigger parts.


Story Time: I saved the asses of 4 noobs that recently played the Voids edge with me where I was El Dragon. “Splash Damage” his AoE skill literally saved our asses because unbeknownst to them, they spawned like 3 Beast Masters by pushing way to far. So now there are a handful of Evolved Thralls and Brutes protecting these 3 Beast Masters whom are infinitely spawning 5 player amounts of Primary Thralls. And my level 20 or lower team is getting absolutely over run and they’re going down one after another and flash backs of week one go through my head where this happened and the team dies over and over again to the point where people start chain disconnecting.

So back to El Dragon, I do everything in my power to prevent that. I slowly creep closer to the force field where the Beast Masters are huddled up as I take down droves of Primary thrall and the occasional Evolved with the help of Splash Damage. I solo revive people and by this point I have so much XP I already have Flailing Fist and I work on taking out the Brutes and eventually the Beast Masters. And all this from a early game El Dragon, which if you didn’t know is kill-able as hell and does no damage, as I basically solo’d +50 enemies.

I think before we destroyed the shard to remove the force field I already had my Ult. And even if none of the other nerfs happen to him, I have little to no confidence that I could pull that situation out of hell itself like I did if “Splash Damage” did half the damage it does now and a -33% smaller radius like the patch note show. It just wouldn’t be possible. So I hope this put into perspective why I care so much about this change, and it’s not that I think OM would be garbage w/out his current FG.

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@khimerakiller I can tell you feel really strongly about the upcoming nerfs for those characters, but you’re overreacting in these posts. No one is arguing against you we just disagree with how much effect they’ll have on the characters.

OM frag/helix level two did entirely too much damage. End of story. I like using OM, but I acknowledge that fact. The only other AOE in the game that hit that hard is Ernest’s base attack. ~slightly exaggerating on purpose~

As for Story Time, this is meant to be a team oriented game, I’m sorry you don’t play with a team and have to carry so many low levels in PvE, but that’s the route you’ve taken. I’ve had to backpack plenty of people in PvP because I rarely team up. That’s how this game is, and when one of my favorite pillars gets the nerf I find new methods or characters who I can fill the gaps with.

If this game does one thing right, it’s that it gives you options for playstyle.

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Inb4 El Dragon can’t even 1v1 a bladebot anymore.

Whatever, we’re at the point of opinions here, but I’ll say this…

This in my opinion is a horrible way to think when it comes to this game. This isn’t CoD where what you play with is a dime-a-dozen faceless gun. To say you’ll just switch characters and not say anything if they’re nerfed is… something. And this thought process has brought this game to a really ■■■■■■ place if you ask me.

Normally I would be fine with this… If they weren’t pooping on Thorn’s Blight (again) at the same time. She used to have really good wave clear and it’s probably going to be ruined now.

On the plus side, hopefully less people chasing all the kills in Meltdown!

in incursion, it’s a fine change. It will avoid the situation where late game players don’t even count on minions anymore too often because minions are kileld too quickly by any AoE.
So in incursion, that’s a great change. BTW since the thrall one shot every single minion, it means its value is actually increased late game compared to now.

Now, in meltdown unfortunately, this is a change that I’m not satisfied with at all. Quite the contrary, in fact. The biggest problem Meltdown as a mode has always faced is deathballing (team grouping to hunt a lane then another rather than separating on each lane). It is especially true late game, because the lane is long enough to allow players to go on one lane, kill or push back everything, and go on the other to still kill the enemy’s minions before they can reach the goal.
Deathballing is due to a combination of 2 things in a MOBA style game :
-ability to quickly go from one lane to another
-minions simply too much time to go to the objective in comparison of the above

In BB, we have sprint, lanes very close of each other (no real jungle in between), and characters with very high mobility (some characters like Mellka can basically reach the other lane by a single well played ability, for example, other like caldarius and the like are simply extremely fast to begin with). Compared to that minions are fairly slow, they’re even more slowed if there’s a thumper turret and an accelerator that need to be destroyed by the BB escorting minions, and on top of this, the overshield protect them temporarily from critical hit and from any damage, in fact. If on top of that minions get more health, it means that the influence of a single BB pushing the line isn’t as great as before. Especially if you add the nerf of several aoe. in other words, one battleborn pushing the line push it more slowly, while the deathball kill or pushback your teammate on the other side as quickly as before.

I can only see this as rewarding even MORE the deathball strategy, which is imo one of the biggest source of frustration as a soloqueue. Especially since deathball leads sooner or later to spawn camping when they work too well. Even if they don’t, it’s just frustrating to have groups like Benedict+Caldarius fighting on the other side as they want yet still having the time to catch up to you as you’re cleaning the minions and the other side and force you to either retreat without doing your job, or die by being 1 vs several.

So tl;dr : good for incursion, bad for meltdown, no influence on capture.

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