Musings on minions getting stronger

Normally I would be fine with this… If they weren’t pooping on Thorn’s Blight (again) at the same time. She used to have really good wave clear and it’s probably going to be ruined now.

On the plus side, hopefully less people chasing all the kills in Meltdown!

in incursion, it’s a fine change. It will avoid the situation where late game players don’t even count on minions anymore too often because minions are kileld too quickly by any AoE.
So in incursion, that’s a great change. BTW since the thrall one shot every single minion, it means its value is actually increased late game compared to now.

Now, in meltdown unfortunately, this is a change that I’m not satisfied with at all. Quite the contrary, in fact. The biggest problem Meltdown as a mode has always faced is deathballing (team grouping to hunt a lane then another rather than separating on each lane). It is especially true late game, because the lane is long enough to allow players to go on one lane, kill or push back everything, and go on the other to still kill the enemy’s minions before they can reach the goal.
Deathballing is due to a combination of 2 things in a MOBA style game :
-ability to quickly go from one lane to another
-minions simply too much time to go to the objective in comparison of the above

In BB, we have sprint, lanes very close of each other (no real jungle in between), and characters with very high mobility (some characters like Mellka can basically reach the other lane by a single well played ability, for example, other like caldarius and the like are simply extremely fast to begin with). Compared to that minions are fairly slow, they’re even more slowed if there’s a thumper turret and an accelerator that need to be destroyed by the BB escorting minions, and on top of this, the overshield protect them temporarily from critical hit and from any damage, in fact. If on top of that minions get more health, it means that the influence of a single BB pushing the line isn’t as great as before. Especially if you add the nerf of several aoe. in other words, one battleborn pushing the line push it more slowly, while the deathball kill or pushback your teammate on the other side as quickly as before.

I can only see this as rewarding even MORE the deathball strategy, which is imo one of the biggest source of frustration as a soloqueue. Especially since deathball leads sooner or later to spawn camping when they work too well. Even if they don’t, it’s just frustrating to have groups like Benedict+Caldarius fighting on the other side as they want yet still having the time to catch up to you as you’re cleaning the minions and the other side and force you to either retreat without doing your job, or die by being 1 vs several.

So tl;dr : good for incursion, bad for meltdown, no influence on capture.

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Specifically, Paradise. Outskirts demonstrated the best way to reduce death-balling in Meltdown: put some distance and cover between the damn lanes!

Whenever I see a premade with assorted murder-titles vote hard on Paradise, I know they’re not here to play Meltdown.


That’s actually a thing I’d like to see - a Meltdown map styled more like a classic MOBA map, with a jungle (close-range dense terrain that takes time to navigate) and maybe even monster camps, giving level ups. Just to make it more interesting.


Let me start by saying that I am in no way intending for any of this to be taken as an attack on anyone, much less who I am quoting. I am quoting these things specifically for you to get in the correct mindset in order for you to, hopefully, understand what I will be covering here.

This is all my opinion and thoughts. Nothing should be taken as anything more.

To any PvE players who want to be prepared for PvP, there is a place in game already called “Private Match” for which you may play to your hearts content in order to be as prepared as you can possibly be! There is no preparing for players within PvP aside from watching videos.

I am unable to understand how people are insistent on a developer giving any more of a tutorial for such simple game modes. The story missions are FAR more complex to navigate and understand than PvP. I believe that If people would exercise thought and do research this would be a non-issue.

People speak negatively of selfishness; and yet, this in itself is exactly what they are speaking badly about. This is the negative tone that gets nothing done and simply destroys. PvE players speak as if it is impossible to get into PvP. PvP players have fairly few, if any, issues in PvE. This is, generally, due to the player element making PvP more skill dependent than PvE’s AI/Bot element. I have noticed that most PvE players tend to be negatively outspoken on PvP and the game in general.

Here’s the thing… Some people are not, and will likely never be, good at PvP. If you happen to be one of those people (like my Fiancé), then make up your mind. PvP poorly and choose to enjoy it or do not PvP at all. No matter the choice, please do not shout the negative things at other players, developers, forum goers, etc. then further complain when you are heard and actions are taken.

As I said before, think and do some research. If a player is destroying you as a certain character, learn that character so you can do better. Being unwilling to learn, adapt and overcome is not something a nerf will fix.

The negative voices will always far out cry the few positive voices. This patch likely contains results from out cry of the community. Regardless, it is, and will always be, an AMAZING game that most of us will enjoy until its untimely end.

Thanks for your time!


You were in 5 player mode and solo’d some of the hardest enemies while reviving teammates.

This could be the exact reason he is receiving such a significant nerf!

I firmly believe that the ability for one character to do this was far from intended and, as such, he is fairly deserving of being nerfed.


New players not veteran’d PvE players. And private match does not prepare you for PvP in the slightest, if anything it promotes turning all modes into Team Death match. As I’ve played matches there pretty frequently, and I just chill out and get 40-60 kills as my “allies” get stuck on the shock turret and shards in our base and never make any attempt to kill the sentry. As I more or less solo 5 AI players, solo the first sentery, and then set up my death nest so I can spawn camp the Toby that never charges his shots or the Phoebe who only uses True Strike.

Who says this? I know those who say they don’t want to, not that they can’t.

I have no issues with actually playing PvP, and I knew when I pre-ordered this game I would basically only be playing PvE. Not because I’m bad at PvP, but because my PC is literally so far below the min requirements for this game I should not be able to play it (in fact I had to down grade my graphics card b/c the Pendle patch messed up my game). I knew I’d never be happy with my performance in PvP and simply reserved my time there for lore challenges.

Reason being because PvP is prioritized in regards to balancing. Making many characters whom preformed just fine in PvE, now nerfed for no reason in those terms. How do you think it would be received by PvP players if Gearbox removed or changed all vertical mobility choices characters have because it unfairly allowed them to get the level up orbs from the chest in “The Sentinel” waaay before other characters even had a chance?

Selfish =/= Negative

I don’t know who your post was targeted to, but I responded to it anyway. And just so you know I have no difficulty or problem with playing PvP. I sorta see where you may have gotten that impression, but that wasn’t any part of my posts.

“Hardest”? That stuff is bitch easy. The problem is you don’t know how to make it “bitch easy” when all you’ve played is the Prologue. And I am a veteran’d and seasoned PvE player, who has done nothing but played the same 8 missions for 5 months. You said yourself “The story missions are FAR more complex to navigate and understand than PvP”, so I’d hope after +600 hours I’d have gained some sort of advantage. And ■■■■■■ PC or not I’d still say I’m in the top 3% of PvE players, playing one of my favorite PvE characters. And if you care you can watch some of my Borderlands YouTube videos to show proof PvE is my domain.

So 600 hours of experince + high skill level player + playing a character I’m extremely comfortable with + a character with wave clear and a wave clear primary + normal mode = I should be able to pull this off and is not reasoning why a character should be nerfed. “Because he’s too good at PvE.” You can ask @wisecarver another proficient PvE player, if he thinks El Dragon is the wrecking ball of PvE.

Well thats because PVP is the main focal point to this game, and in the state its in community/population wise, balancing PVP and PVE seperately is too much work for how bleak things look.
Also, Battleborn’s “Majority” population wants the game to steer towards a competitive scene, making PVP even more important then PVE.
They do whats best for their community as a whole, an that translates into majority rules.
Majority play PVP, so the game is and will continue, to cater to the PVP side of the game.
Thats the bottom line. PVP is more important then PVE. No dev will say it, but its the harsh reality.
Not trying to be rude, sorry if it comes across that way, i personally wish they cld balance them separately, but i realize how futile of a wish that is, faced with reality.


Yes, specifically Paradise. Which is the representative map for the mode, unfortunately. The most ancient, the most picked (especially by groups used to meltdown), and even put forward by the devs with things like having paradise as a 100% chance to be among the choice in quick match, stuff like that.

I know why they do it this way, I was just explaining to him why he more than likely got that impression.


…Some of your mods here will back me up on this, I do my best as Dragon in PvE.
In advanced I text them and say, Well I’m going in, let’s see if that last helix will help. :wink:

Oh I just thought I remembered that you had a really hard time with El dragon, and even posted one of your runs of the Algorithm because you were having such a difficult time. Reserving him to PvP only if I might add. :stuck_out_tongue:

Doing Void’s Edge advanced just now it was going really well until Nix.
Did a clothesline into him hoping to end with a splash but he instantly did 2k damge on contact and killed me.
My ratio for Dragon in PvE is probably common: 53 Missions, 173 deaths.