My Battleborn sabotage theory I always wanted to ask about

Hi. So, if anybody remembers early days of Battleborn, by early I mean around the release where we all were enthusiastic and full of hope. There was a thing that made absolutely no sense to me, the one that in my opinion was one of the reasons for the Battleborn to make an extremely bad first impression, lose the whole lot of early players, and ultimately fail.

I am talking about two things here:

  1. Overgrowth Marquis Sentry exploit that essentially ruined the pvp experience for the most popular pvp map of the game, and turned it into the cheese fest no one ever enjoyed;
  2. Galilea insane power level. She turned the whole pvp experience into torture especially for low level/experience players.

The problem was, those issues were prominent during the beta, and made known of numerous amount of time, yet nothing were done about them until late AFTER the release, and it took a very long time for critical issues like this to be adressed. And there were a pretty long time between the beta and the release, so many people, myself included, assumed by default that those issues would be resolved by the time the game comes out, because… well, it was only sane thing to assume? Why launch the beta if you do not listen or act on the feedback you’re getting, especially on such critical and game ruining issues?

It almost feels to me like sabotage, because I see no other reason how something like this doesn’t get fixed in a huge window between the beta and the release. It should’ve been top priority, yet nothing was done about it. Someone gave the order for these issues to remain untouched until the release so that the game fails?

@Jythri can you please explain the thought process behind leaving those issues unadressed while going into full release?

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I heard from one dev that balancing characters comes from a lot of people working for gearbox. So probably a bunch of sub lvl 100s are making the balance changes instead of having a group of experienced devs take charge who actually play the game to balance it the right way. The devs can’t just listen to the community (not that they really do) because the devs need to be experienced enough to know when the community is complaining about a pub-star character vs when they are complaining about one that is truly OP.

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Those issues were glaring, they were literally ruining the battleborn pvp experience, it wasn’t the matter of community whining.

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Well marquis was something unexpected lol, it required a full map rework.

Galilea was a big bug and yes her dps was rly high.

Unexpected, yes, but the problem he caused rose during the beta. And it was fixed by placing a wall. I don’t think that small map architecture adjustment that fixes the game ruining exploit was not possible during the months between beta and the release. But they knew it happened on Incursion, and they decided to leave things as they were so ■■■■ would hit the fan as soon as release happens and people leave. Why? It was obvious, yet they refused to do a thing about it.

Beta/Release Galilea’s dps aside, she could sprint and attack at the same time. Who the hell thought that was a good idea? On a character with already so much CC and innate power level. She was just wrecking game after game, I picked her and learned bad talens on her just so that others in my team wouldn’t pick and abuse her. She rendered any pvp game plan unfun.

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The open beta launched on April 8th, and if I remember right (correct me if I’m wrong) I’m pretty sure it lasted one week, so it would have ended on the 15th. Since battleborn released on May 3rd, it was not actually months between beta and release. If my memory is right, and it did end on the 15th, then there was actually 19 days between end of beta and release. Not months.

I don’t think anybody at gearbox was actively trying to sabotage battleborn. There was enough people outside of gearbox doing that anyway. It’s just the same old story of Gearbox making a few bad decisions at the worst possible time in my honest opinion.

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Balance and scaling seem to be the area the Gearbox devs have the most difficulty in. I would like to see them focus a lot more on this in the upcoming games. I think people would be pretty tolerant of the balance issues in the Beta because it is well a Beta. Sales were poor on launch week for Battleborn and we really did not have any idea just how the balance was addressed at that time. I think largely there were other factors at play that stopped people coming on board. For me I was not a fan of the art style (yes I know this is fickle), while I am not a MOBA player but if the game was a success I certainly would have given it a go later down the track. Also I just don’t like multiplayer and the solo part was very limited on release. They built on this down the track but that was too late and too much of an afterthought. So the look was not my taste and adding to that is it more of a shooter or more of a moba, is it more solo or more multiplayer, I really think the game struggled with finding an identity.

As a casual player I won’t be consistent enough for premades but I don’t want to play with randoms as I would rather develop a plan and work it than just go and shoot stuff (I can do that in Borderlands). So there was no one thing in this game that said to me that I must play it instead it said to me it looks like a pretty cool collection of things but I am still not sure what it really is and if I would like it so I decided to wait for it to go on sale. Then it did at some point and by that time my interest had waned as there still was not substantial community for it. I don’t have Overwatch either as I am not interested in that type of game also. So I am a Gearbox Borderlands fan who only wants Borderlands style of game and I guess there are a lot more like me than I thought.

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Battleborn didnt have an identity to be promoted in releas, they actually did an awfull job telling ppl what this game was about and why you should pick it.

Also galilea sprint attack thing was a bug, unintentional. But as far as i can tell, gbx is a small studio they probably decides to leave a lot of bugs to bring the game in time.

I belive this bugs and bad optimisation killed the game in pc. When they improved the game to go 60fps my accuracy increased… I always thought i had bad accuracy as i never liked first person shooters.

Dont forget this was their first game like this, a lot of mistakes must be expected, long times to change/fix due small studio.

My opinion, after the next patch would be the best time to make a massive survey and try a relaunch. This game is not the same game when it launched.

Hey. Fair questions, and I’ve talked about this some generally in response to other questions. As you might imagine, every issue has it’s own quirks and reasons, and these two are a bit different.

The Overgrowth bug became apparent in Early Access, during Early Access, probably just around a month before “launch date”. In some ways, it was the most frustrating time to find a bug like that. As I’ve mentioned before, we have to run each patch through a certification process, that is generally 1-2 weeks. Launch Certification is often 4-6 weeks.

Because the Overgrowth bug required some map tweaks (and not just numbers) it wasn’t a candidate for micropatching. Since the release game was already in certification when we found the bug, we had two options. Add it to the Day 0 patch, which was already in progress and about to be submitted to certification. Or add it into the patch containing Alani (our first DLC character). We just missed the Day 0 patch, which pushed it to the Alani patch,which I believe was three weeks after launch. I remember that time, and I know it felt really slow. With the cert process, however, that was as fast as we could patch it.

Galilea has been a journey of a lot of issues. The core problem with her, in hindsight. was no only her overall powerscale, it’s that we created a Tank Mage - a character that could do almost everything and was nearly self-sufficient She could damage, tank, self-heal, stun, pull, and escape. Way too much for what she was intended to be. If you look at our patch history those first few months, you’ll notice that we made some changes with her nearly every patch. Those were all based on data + feedback, and while it took longer than we wanted, we got her into a place where she wasn’t the juggernaut she started.

Just a side note on priority - I know the community often finds issues that they believe are the “top priority”. Most of the time, that’s hardly the case. While both of those issues were certainly “must fix ASAP” issues, there are almost always dozens of other issues that are just as serious…many which the community rarely sees because we catch them before you do. :slight_smile:

All that said, there are some things we definitely need to improve. The dev team wanted the beta to start at CTT (November 2015) and not stop. Just keep the game running until launch, opening it up to more and more people. That would have allowed us to find and fix a lot of those glaring issues prior to launch. Unfortunately, that wasn’t what we did. Also, our patch process needs to be much more responsive, especially in those first few weeks or months. Believe it or not, we did incredibly speed up our cert/patch process from previous games. Like…a lot. But it wasn’t enough to keep a competitive community engaged. So, there’s some work that needs to happen there.

I still believe in Battleborn. I think it’s a great game with it’s own unique twists and flavors. Millions of people have played it, and I believe in it’s future. We’re going through some slow times now for lots of reasons I can’t talk about :slight_smile: . But the game isn’t forgotten or abandoned. That I can guarantee.

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#Amen Thank you!

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From your mouth-fingers, to MY soul!

YOU HAVE MY MECH, @Jythri!

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There’s a lot of us that still think like you do! It sucks there is so much anger and fustration floating around the community right now, but on the flipside, all that energy is directed at Battleborn’s future, people care enough to be angry/upset and will keep asking every time the Battleplan date rolls around! That to me shows passion and love for what you folks have made!

Keep at it and we will support you as best we can when the time comes! :heart:

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Obviously she’s in a far better place balance wise today than she was when the game launched, but she’s still problematic to say the least. Any chance you would be able to lay out your future plans for her a little more in depth? I know you’ve mentioned there’s plans to tone down her CC in the next update, but would you be able to get a bit more in depth about the details about that. Personally I’m of the belief that she’ll never be balanced if she retains the ability to simultaneously pull and silence (and slow) on the same skill and follow up with a stun. I know I’m not the only one hoping that if she retains all her current CC abilities, that the pull will be moved to level four so you can either pick the pull or the silence but not both.

Actually,I was there at launch and for a bit less than two months after that and racked up 250h during that period (Among the few that can proudly say he scored gold on Saboteur 5man before it’s first nerf!).
If you remember correctly,and I’m pretty much convinced that’s what killed this game,the steam chart would show you that as well,is that this game launched a few weeks before Overwatch.

We told them it was a bad idea but they still did it. Blizzard went as far as adding a new open beta weekend during the last Battleborn open beta weekend when they explicitly said that they would not do anymore OB weekend for OW.

This,plus the lack of advertising made a somewhat good launch but as soon as OW came out,the playerbase just kept dropping.

And what you explained took it’s role at this moment. The balance problem,the long time to fix a few things and the lack of communications failed to retain the players that stayed,even after OW. Then the Matchmaking was getting emptier and emptier and it spiraled to what we have today.

I also remember that microtransactions being added to a full paid game very shortly after it’s launch,was received very badly.

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There is actually many things to do to counter this with “teamplay” & honestly blight town is more OP than slow. You run jump and pull and literally the whole enemy team gets flung behind you. Question is, is GBX gonna balance Galilea with teamplay in mind or pubbing in mind?

I mentioned this before, take away wound on her shield throw, nerf blight town, take away crit on sword bolts and that would make her more balanced w/ her current kit. But I think the devs will be working on a re work though honestly. I know Jythri mentioned before that they will be making her regen (level 5) helix scale on corruption like the atk speed helix which is a good idea.

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^^^^^^^ A thousand times this!!! The only time I think the slow is worth it over the range is if there is a really annoying Caldarius on the enemy team. I don’t know why so many people think the slow is better.

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I thought everyone knew Blight Town was the OP helix. Is this actually not general knowledge? because Blight Town is like the kind of mutation that even Beatrix and Boldur would look at and say “Hey, that’s kinda cheap”

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Customers always see problems with other eyes than developers, I’ve done dev work myself and I know that. I also know how frustrating it is when you sit in your office chair and read complaints from customers (or even worse: have them on the phone) and you aren’t allowed to even tell them that all those issues they brought up (and many other things) are already fixed in the latest snapshot that will be merged into release whenever some other department feels like it.

As much as I love this game, it sometimes is depressing to even start it up. To make my point a little more clearer, let’s take a look at this “match” (only Bots Battle) that happened yesterday:


As you can see, it’s a Bots Battle game with two disconnects. Those two disconnects were the people who were grouped up with me when we started the game. I don’t know why the El Dragon left, but I know exactly why the Benedict left:
A spot in a private 10 stack became available.

So, evening started with me asking someone if they wanted to play for a while. I even left gamemode choice open and would’ve had played anything (but people always assume I’m only into non PvP …).
We grouped up, another person I never played with before got invited and joined too and it ended with me having to try my best to carry some randoms to a victory in a Bot match (I was never more happy to have picked Montana). I didn’t want to make them any more angry about the fact that “my team” was the one throwing the game.

I stopped playing Battleborn after that match, took a walk in the dark to get some fresh air and played something else instead.

The community on PC kills itself with stuff like that which even endangers friendships right now. Fun games are only in private games anymore and this is basically nothing else than:
“You are not part of the cool kid’s club? You don’t play.”

Public queues are empty. Even Bots Battle can take more than 15 minutes for me most of the time - time I sometimes just don’t have. Private games are fun, but you are forced to add almost everyone from the whole playerbase to your friends list, because despite having this button:

there’s no way to be found ingame.

If this button would have any use (i.e., having a match browser like in BL2), people would’ve been able to get groups for private or public games together more easily. As of now, people are fighting over open spots in 10 stacks, even the spectator spots. There’s always those who are always late to the party and they are stuck in single player modes. Honestly, this game sometimes really knows how to rub it in to make you feel depressed about not having others to play with. You only have to look at some of the lore challenges.

It doesn’t help that no one has information about the current state of development and I want the people waving with NDAs to know that. People post the same boring discussions about how the game needs to be f2p, how the servers will be shut down soon, write the same old balancing rants again and again and they just love to link the steam charts. This drives even more players away by giving the impression that Battleborn is a game with a very unhealthy “fun:problem-ratio”. This makes the game less fun with every day. This just reinforces the stigma of being a “Ded gaem”.

I love Battleborn, I had much fun with it for more than a year now and don’t see me stop playing it very soon, but I openly tell people to not buy it on PC since a while now, because it’s sometimes more depressing than fun at the moment.

This game needs some hype and some positivity but that silence lately creates the same mood as in a funeral.

We don’t have any topics to discuss other than:
“It has been a privilege playing with you tonight.”

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There’s honestly no club like that. Kinda a weird thing to say. Sure people in my friendlist invite me from time to time simply because they know I’m a PvP player. Obviously if you have the same people in my friendlist and they know you mainly play against bots there is a way smaller chance they will invite.

But a thing such as “cool kids” club doesn’t exist. Almost everytime I join a 10-man lobby I see one or more newer players.

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I think it’s extremely problematic when team coordination is the answer to an uncoordinated individual.

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