My list of things which are killing PVP

Broken quick melee… several characters have broken quick melee skills which pretty much border on cheating…

The few that I know of are Thorn, Gault, Marquis, these guys can just continually quick melee you, push you around and leave you unable to do anything at all…

Deande’s juggle lock… so Deande can juggle you in the air and continually lock you in place until you’re dead… Totally broken, unfair mechanic which generally rewards lazy gameplay…

Rath’s spin to win… yeah been talked about, but Rath can just bounce you into the air, then much like Deande can just juggle you in place until your dead. Quick Melee seems to be very ineffective in pushing him back… especially with his increased speed during Dreadwind…

cheating… I assume the game has some sort of Anti Cheat, but it needs to be improved as I’ve seen loads of Thorn aimbot players, jump around like crazy yet hit crits all the time… I’d think it’s possible they are quick scoping but they can do this so often that it raises questions. These are the same people, I have a list of them, once I see them enter game I leave… One person in particular on the PC is obvious…

Echelon is lag city, maybe it’s my card as I’ve heard AMD users complain but I seem fine in every other mode, totally exceed the game’s settings, but yet lag like crazy in Echelon. Not sure if this is a gearbox or AMD fix, but makes that map one that is totally unfun.

Speaking of Echelon, an exploit exist where people can shoot the sentry at the top of the steps and the sentry can’t shoot back… Highly exploitable by any ranged DPS such as Toby, Marquis and Thorn… Not really exclusive to them as any ranged can hit the sentry… just those three are far more effective

I wouldn’t say any of these could kill PvP. Many of them I don’t see issue with at all. You would hate me for meleeing you with Mellka I think…

Maybe the part about Echelon. I’m on PS4, so I can’t speak to the lag. Hasn’t affected me. Same goes for cheating. Hopefully they get it worked out, hackers are frustrating.

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Thorn is a projectile shooting character. Not hitscan. I really doubt you’re seeing aimbots for her.

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Quick melee is definately an under utilized tool, and I believe others will catch on to how good it is, but the reality is it really only counters 1v1 play.

It’s somewhat ironic that you’re complaining about both the quick melee and Deande’s juggle, when the quick melee is a hard counter to the juggle. A well timed quick melee is how you prevent her from getting multiple juggles.

Rath’s Dreadwind is good, but is still just the bane to under experienced characters, and is mainly a fundamentals check.

Most of the time a Rath cannot engage if a player is postitioning properly. Keep an eye on the minimap to track Rath’s movements, and be sure to back off if he is coming near.

A team needs to have a good spread of CC. Knock ups and stuns counter ultimates, so when playing against a Rath, someone needs to be holding their CC to counter his Dreadwing.

Rath is very good against players with poor fundamentals, or poorly made team comps, but quickly becomes less useful against more experienced players as they know how to track his movements and Dreadwind’s cooldown, and position themselves better.

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Quick melee messes up the juggle every time, anyway it’s overrated and only truly dangerous if Deande’s running attack speed as you can just change direction and drift away from her in mid-air with how slowly she attacks.

If we didn’t have the quick melee mechanic ranged characters would be beaten out by melee every time, it’s the only real counter they have aside from the ones with an AoE.

So… no melee, only play ranged confirmed.

Is it that guy with 3-4 lines as a name (I assume character in some East Asian language that couldn’t be rendered)?
I member in ranked mm our team beat a guy with the above playing as Marquis with an aimbot. I definitely knew it after a few instance with the final one being when I turned invisible but he still head shot me while I was jumping and zigzagging as a cloaked Oscar Mike with his speed boost helix from a distance.

so i’ve been playing deande a lot recently and i have to strongly disagree with you because everyone gets away from me. everyone! :weary: if only this was true.

something fishy is going on when the person just shreds through just about any and everyone… Jumping around like crazy, hitting crits like a boss and killing people in a few shots… Doing so from half way across the map… I suppose the person could be really amazing but yea… I’m thinking something more sinister… especially since it’s the same every game I see them in…

there is also gear, which can increase a character’s potential + player skill and how well they know /have played a character also contributes a lot while leveling up with the help of team members

Well, until you can post some definitive proof that someone is doing this, it sounds like you’re just running into good thorn players.

Like I alluded to, an aimbot for a projectile character is gonna have some limitations. Those limitations are further and further amplified for someone trying to hit from long distances, which seems to be one of your complaints.

it’s mainly the jumping and some how always getting crits… I don’t see how someone could jump into the air like a bunny, have super speed, and still manage to crit crit crit almost every hit…

As for quick melee… a ranged character shouldn’t be able to send you flying across the map… It’s stupid when they quick melee repeatedly and melee lock you in place… Maybe put them all on a certain delay, as I said, it’s stupid when playing as a melee character that Marquis can slap you senseless and send you floating in the other direction… That type of stuff is bogus.

I’m assuming you’re on PC. Based on that, I don’t see how a player that is accurate while bunny hopping is a bd. that’s a skill that was required for the old Arena-style FPSs. The fact that they’re moving around and jumping like crazy honestly makes me even less inclined to believe these thorns (again, projectile character) are using aimbots.

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:+1: for that logic. I try to remind myself of Quake 3 Arena, whenever I face someone with aiming superior to mine. (For those who do not know, Bunny Hopping and Rocket Jumps basically let every player in this game be like Thorn². And they could still snipe you with the Railgun.)

Also, Deande’s juggle and Snipers (if legitimately played) have one thing in common: They punish players for straying from their group, exposing themselves to often or overextending themselves in any other way.
These ‘strategies’ are as legit as a Montana mowing down a single player who chooses to move on a sentry with just a few bots and no teammates. :wink:

As a side note, I currently play Deande and I’ve even seen Bots get out of the juggle with certain skills.

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You can use any movement ability to dash out of Deande’s knock up. You can also attack her on the way down.

only agree on the last half of your post OP thats why i hate playing on echelon

I have this new game I play on Overgrowth, when I’m running Thorn against a lower/mid-level Raths (good Raths don’t fall for the trick).

If the Rath plays a bit too aggressively (sign of inexperience) and seems to be relying on spin to win, I simply allow him to chase me out of position.

If they take the bait (sign of inexperience), I just try to pick off a bit of health with auto attack. Usually they answer with Dreadwind, and “miraculously” I’m not there anywhere.

Now they’re overextended, out of options, and I still have my full combo. The rest, as they say, is history.

I do the same if I see them going out of position to kill one of my team mates, because they think they’re invincible.

I’ve killed a lot of Raths this way this week…

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It’s just just Deande, it’s the fact that you can get knocked up Period… It’s a stupid game play mechanic in all honesty… Allows for lots of exploitation which shouldn’t be in the game.

It’s one thing to have a skill based game, it’s another to take away that skill because someone has a skill set which allows them to cheat the system.

I’ve rarely if ever gotten out of Deande’s juggle, sure a few times against newer Deandes who are 3 - 14, but any half way decent one and it’s game over no matter what I do…

Same with Rath, sure you can knock rath back with a Quick melee, occasionally it’ll work, normally his movement speed just allows him to close the gap in almost no time flat and bang you’re dead.

You already gave the melee characters CC abilities, these juggling aspects aren’t CC abilities, it’s just a cheap exploit of the game system… Just my opinion though, if anything during the Juggle and Rath’s Dreadwind, their hit boxes should be expanded or something at the very least, to allow for easier knock backs. Just me, knock and spin isn’t skill, it’s cheap and borderline exploit…

I like this game but it’s far from a skill game, it’s a who can use the biggest exploit and or use the MOST OP at the time character…

You really are complaining about DeAndes slow turtle melee speed, short reach, slow sprint and movement speed?

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These are all the Heros that can get out of Deande’s upper cut:

Attikus
Benedict
Boldur
Caldarius
El dragon
Isic
Melka
Montana
Orendi
Phoebe (pretty sure phase gates cast point is to long if they have any attack speed, but you can true strike backwards)

I’m semi certain that Toby and Kleese can use their boosters out of it. So you have 12 characters that can get away from it that’s about half of the character pool. Then you add the fact that you can attack during the second half of the knock up, so every melee in the game can reverse maul her. Also that she has to stand still to do it because she gets knocked up to.

The character is incredibly weak to AoE’s both in her knock up and her ulti as she still takes full damage during both. There’s a reason why she is generally placed one tier above Attikus on the tier lists (although Atti is way better than her).