My Overgrowth Tier list for this patch

Ello all, a player from PC usually playing on Singapore evening by the name Enfys Ellezard (for now). Recently, I’m getting bored of all the stomp fest so I have been doing a lot of random queue and leveling to understand each character and how to deal with them. Some I will even grind in PvE to get the mutator I feel is mandatory first. For my current PvP result, I’m sitting at 93 games won and 22 game loss overall. Combined with Beta and current play time, over 250 hours of my life have been wasted.

Pic for stat : [ http://i.imgur.com/jPY2trV.jpg ]

This here is a tier list I made based on my opinions of each characters in Incursion-Overgrowth. In this tier list, the characters will be placed from top to bottom based on who gets more score from me. This tierlist is made under the assumption that the players know and perform most of the advanced trick while using a good loadout for the role that character performs in.

Date made: 15/5/2016

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A+ Tier : Too strong to be in this game.

Galilea

Galilea:

Although she was recently nerfed, Galilea Desecrate is still a braindead win button with the pull-silence to her stun. It doesn’t matter how bad the Galilea is. All she needs to do is pull you into an AoE and stun you or just stun you, pull and outright 100-0 you to win the game.

I had a few games where I know the enemy player is horribly bad based on their past performance and how much I stomp them but it doesn’t really matter because on Galilea, even after whiffing her shield 4 times in a row, the 5th shield that finally landed was a death sentence. As long as she maintain the title of “Press a few buttons and faceroll to outplay”, she will still be up here.

Hopefully the first major patch will introduce some weaknesses to her that aren’t completely removed with the 2 sup 1 bruiser/tank comp. Right now, there’s nothing you can do to a good 2 sup 1 gal comp abusers. You can’t even go after the supports without Galilea turning around, press a button, stop your attempt and just kill you.

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A Tier: Very strong and might need to be toned down if they become stronger based on meta or other character changes.

Miko
Oscar Mike
Thorn
Marquis

Miko:
As we all know, Miko is toned down but the survivability this mushroom has is still insane. Great damage, great heal and a skill floor that is below ground level, the Shroom is pretty much in almost every game as one of the most effective healers in the game. As you unlock the Mutator, the shroom can further boost the survivability to an insane level while also stacking the healing number that can be applied to Miko with the Helix 2 R.

If they wish to tone down Miko in the future beside just the heal number, move the +100% slow spore field to H4 L instead so you can’t just get the best slow in the game along with an option to make it a stun as well. Just Miko alone can make nearly every melee char in this game unplayable because of that spore field. Darn slow even lasts for nearly 2 seconds after leaving it without decaying.

Oscar Mike:
The Noob Tube of this game. After level 2, that fire grenade becomes one of the strongest skills in the game. Just stick to wave clearing, drop a few bomb on enemies sometime and wait till 5 before you drop an ult on a good choke point or fight and win game. He’s just that strong with little downside because of how strong his Fire grenade and Air strike are.

I won’t be surprised at all if they tone down the fire grenade damage or the Air strike cooldown in the future. The char can literally win a teamfight with only two skills used and not fire a single bullet.

Thorn:
One of the strongest casters in the game at the moment. She is VERY RELIABLE to carry with. Great push, great damage, great survivability. This is one of the best ranged chars in the game.

Just don’t play her as a bow sniper, please. That kind of Thorn are so USELESS TO HAVE IN THE TEAM. Just blight the minions or enemies and quickly get to 5 and maybe get a Volley curse arrow if you’re too lazy to do a charge shot. Late game, just doing Blight volley Ult and you can 100-0 every squishies in the game with almost no room to fight back. THe ult alone does 1k damage late game if the opponent is cursed.

This is also one of the few range chars you can really run into the enemy team and still run out back to your base like nothing thanks to the double jump height and the quick melee backward propel. Her survivability is just that high.

Marquis:

Unlike the other character in the bracket, Marquis is extremely strong because of the stage. If you ever fight on the way to sentry 2, Marquis no longer become a threat. He really is just strong around Sentry #1 snipe area.

Until the major patch with the terrain change, Marquis can easily control a game and abuse the “Only my hat is visible” trick to win all snipe vs snipe contest against non Marquis. He’s also very slim and is annoying to hit compared to other snipers like Toby who can be extremely vulnerable. When picking a comp, if you’re not playing as a team that can rush and destroy the Marquis comp, you will want to play something that can get in Marquis’ face and destroy him. If your team doesn’t have that, it’s going to be a nightmare to play that match.

If the stage fix really kills his abusive tricks, Marquis as a character might be moved down to B tier at best. I still wish they tone down his AS though cause he’s annoying as hell when I’m not picking characters to destroy him.

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A- Tier: Strong but in a rather fair place because of the difficulty gate though they might be toned down later.

Benedict
Kleese
ISIC

Benedict:

One of my favourite picks and one of the best hard carries in the game at the moment because he can not only control the enemy players but also the environment and the shard with his ridiculous movement. A good Benedict will single handedly rekt and destroy the enemy team after he gets through that level 4 or 6 barrier. However, before you break through that barrier, he is on a weaker side of the game and that can be somewhat exploited.

Also, Marquis is one of the most picked chars at the moment. The darn sniper robot really make Benedict’s early game life hell and can force a win before the Benedict even reach level 4. However, if you can get through that, you will stomp all over Marquis. This does require a considerable amount of skill to be able to pull off so it’s not surprising to see a lot of Benedict failing but hey, that’s why he’s an advanced character.

Kleese:

The hardest support in the game comes with the highest carry potential. Insane shield, anti Marquis abuse, highest support damage, highest utility. This guy has EVERYTHING. Sadly, he also comes with a few weakness because of his big hitbox and that he does need a few helix before he can get going (Rift network and snipe mutator). He’s also one of the few characters that can kill Galilea.

Gearbox already knows about this though and are about to tone him down slightly.

ISIC:

The digital warrior was toned down on his survivability and much tear were had. One of the biggest misunderstandings this char has is that “He is a tank!” all because of that one tag in the character profile.

This guy is a “walking turret of death” with very little room to punish. He has one of the best escape in the game (stun dash, unblockable by enemies and can go up terrain) and a bunch of tools for survivability. (Shield, Rotating ward with deflect and of course, overcharge ult gives more shield). His slow and additional damage mutator on charged attack also makes it extremely annoying to get to him or run away as he snipe you to death with ease thanks to the slow.

As long as you abuse his turret form and his survivability to play him as a “walking turret of death” instead of a front line tank, you will carry hard with him. Like, really hard. If you see him, you must push as much advantages as possible pre-5 before he gets that ult and become one of the strongest hard carries to deal with in the game. If he ever ults, send someone to cc and stop him.

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B+ Tier: Strong and somewhat in the right place at the moment though they have a chance of moving up if the higher tier characters get nerfed.

Ambra
Kelvin
Attikus

Ambra:

“Oh no she was liquidiated” cried the forum after the nerfs. Ambra may no longer be a “braindead hold beam and look at people to kill them” anymore but she’s still one heck of a support although a very difficult one to play.

For a support, she is extremely versatile, like, extremely. Sadly, most of her stuffs are actually locked behind mutator wall. Once you unlock her fire bolt and “Heal sunspot” mutator, Ambra can easily compete with the top supports or even outperform.

Out of all the supports, Ambra is my 2nd choice to pick (Kleese being the first choice) to carry game with. With those mutator and her legendary unlocked, she can easily shift into a damager with great healing potential. If it weren’t for the helix rank gate (level 7 for Fire bolt) and the legendary gate, she would be A- tier on my list.

Kelvin:

Best stun in the game with good scaling and good damage. Kelvin is a strong char even if you’re a solo melee tank with no healer. If you leave him to chomp some minions, he will be insanely hard to take down late game.

However, for being a late game monster, his early weakness is something most players can easily punish. He also doesn’t spike at level 5 either because he gets an ice wall ult, not a damaging ult. Kelvin also isn’t that great for the 2 sup 1 carry kind of comp because he really can’t protect the supports that well after his stun is on CD.

Fortunately, the invul-stun is extremely strong on matter how you look at it and combined with a few early mutators, allow him to be a huge threat in the game right at the beginning of the match.

Attikus:

This guy just feels so bad but once you unlock his mutator, he becomes a total beast. One of the stronger late-game type char, Attikus has one of the most game changing ability in the game, his ult. He’s one of the better char to use the 2 sup 1 carry comp with as you just watch him wrekt face.
If it weren’t for the early level weaknesses and how much item + helix he needed to start destroying with him, he would be A- tier.

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B tier: Strong with a fair amount of strong points and weakness.

Phoebe
Mellka
Toby
Shayne&Aurox
Reyna

Phoebe:

When you can stop comparing Phoebe to the CTT version and start learning her the way she currently is, Phoebe is actually a very strong character with one of the highest kill potential in the game.

Most of her is sadly locked behind the mutator wall. However, when you unlock those, Phoebe becomes a monster.
Crosscut (H3 Mut): +150% true strike damage if you land the finisher hit on an enemy
Blade sweep (H5 Mut) : Add a sweep attack to true strike. This sweep also deals more damage than the first hit.
Cont Plan (H6 Mut): Phasegate CD is reset if Phoebe shield is broken.

These 3 combined makes Phoebe a nightmare for enemies to deal with.
At level 5 with Cross cut and Blade sweep, just landing the two empowered True strike can easily deal 500 damage. Also, the true strike sweep counts for the first 2 hit on her 4 hit attack chain. You can do True strike Sweep Attack Attack to proc silence mark and the bonus damage. You can easily kill all squishies in 2-3 combos. This true strike thing also gives you a tool to deal with quick melee knock as well so if you time and go in with the 4th stab, you can do the true strike for 500 damage right away.
At level 6 with Cont Plan, she can now go in, drop ult, kill someone and teleport out. Best part is that this isn’t even on the same tier as the + phase gate range tier.

Mellka:

Most people think Mellka are bad especially when you play her as a straightforward DPS type. However, Mellka is one of the most annoying hit-and-run character ever to deal with. She also has one of the best mobility in the game. You can do a 3.5 jump with her without any mutator if you get the “Propel backward on melee hit”

In the current popular “Marquis and the melee carry with sup” comp, Mellka is one of the best char to try and deal with it. Although she won’t kill people right away, she can keep coming back and annoy the crap out of Marquis or even finish him off if he’s below a certain point. Against the melee, she’s almost impossible to catch and kill without abusing something like Galilea. Although not as much as Benedict, Mellka can also do Shard control (because she can hop on the Thrall cliff and steal shard).

It’s because she takes all the way to level 8 before her damage spike though which is why she’s only at B tier instead of B+.

Toby:

An extremely strong sniper in the game at the moment with a lot of utility and decent mobility if you can control his charger.

When you get his stun upgrade, he also becomes very scary to fight head on especially in the current CC-chain dominating meta. Just getting hit by that stun alone though can easily take away 60-70% of your squishy health anyway and if you think Shield stun is easy to land, the arc mine is even faster. Sadly, he doesn’t have a pull to force a hit though.

What’s preventing him from dominating the game atm is Marquis abusing the “Only my hat” trick to win all snipe war against Toby and later, kill him because of his body size. When that is fixed, Toby will go up.

S&A:

I played a few game on them with Random pick and they’re really strong when played as an assassin. The damage is huge if you stealth in and kill someone. Pull them back in they try to run or even become a part of the CC-chain meta later on.

The large size is annoying to deal with though and even with the constant overshield and the huge shield + health pool, S&A are still quite easy to kill and it’s not like they can make much of a game-changing play and with the 2 sup 1 carry at the moment, it’s hard to kill someone with this level of DPS once Aurox is shut down. If you already use the skill to engage, chances are, you won’t have any to escape with and that’s where the enemies will punish you and kill you.

Reyna:

I would rate Reyna higher especially in the 2 sup comp because she is one of the best char in the game in a 2 sup comp. She just scales so well, fulfilling her duty as the “savior” who prevents all assassination attempt from going through with that insane burst heal+shield.

However, that doesn’t change the fact that Reyna is also the worst choice for a solo support. She has too many early weaknesses that can easily be exploited and until 4, she can’t even heal or shield constantly. Because she’s often the bad choices most of the time, she’s in this B tier. Very strong but not to the point you will pick her every game when the team needs a support. You will do better with Miko -> Ambra -> Kleese unless it’s a 2 sup comp.

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B- Tier: Strong but have a bit too much weaknesses or or a playstyle too easily predicted. You will need a lot of skills to cover the weaknesses.

Orendi
Rath
Ghalt
Montana
Boldur

Orendi:

Man, I love Orendi, really. She was one of my go-to carry during beta but because of that, I’m also used to her weaknesses.

Her spells can be dodged and her early game REALLY SUCK. Before you get 5, you’re stuck on minion clearing duty because anyone good will dodge your stuffs easily because of the big indicator. When you get your ult though, you become a completely different char to deal with who can easily kill a person for not paying attention to the health bar carefully.

But while her ult is on cool down, she’s really not much of a threat compared to say, Thorn who can 100-0 as well and still be a threat while the ult is down.

Rath:

Some of you may hate me on this one because “Er mah gerd Rath so Opeeeee he knock to spin and I die”

He’s a one trick pony. Pubstomp is all he does. What else will you do while Rath ult is on CD? All you’re stuck doing in knock someone up and then be useless. The damage, while fast, is average at best. He’s extremely squishy and won’t be able to survive anything without the life steal constantly healing him. If he gets CC’d or his ult interrupted, the teamfight is pretty much a loss for the Rath’s side.

But of course, because he’s a one-trick pony, he’s also extremely easy to do well with and that’s why he’s up here instead of C+. Against a team of good players, you might be able to deal a good amount of damage with the knock up CC chain especially with the silence attached and already reach the peak of performance with him. However, against a bunch of inexperienced baddies, just go ham and enjoy goign 20-3.

Ghalt:

Ghalt has one of the highest per-shot damage especially with H7 R 2 shots per fire helix. However, he’s extremely inconsistent and I have seen many times where his bullets whiff for no reason if you go the H3 L snipe route to force full damage on nearly every shot. It even whiffs on stunned opponents and minions too.

With his unreliable damage on his gun, it also sucks that his ult is horrible. At 5, it does give him some damage but above that, you lose DPS for using it. It doesn’t deal anywhere near the damage stacked tactical shell normal attack and has very annoying large crosshair spread and damage drop off issues.

So if you want to do well with Ghalt, you’re stuck doing Chain-and-stun duty. This also makes him a one-trick pony, sadly. When you’re used to dealing with Ghalt, you will just shoot the surrounding area he’s at first just to deactivate his trap. Still, a good chain will win game and you can easily snowball off the early game with a few good hook. Howeverm if you don’t, prepare for a harsh late game.

Montana:

What do you with Montana? You fire the minigun. You toggle the ice mode to do more stuffs with minigun.

And then you rush in with the dash to a knock up to an ult knock up.

And that’s it. That’s all Montana does. He doesn’t offer much more than this sadly. If you don’t have a pocket healer comp, you’re kinda screwed. With so many people doing sniper comp, Montana needs all the healing he can get or he just get destroyed.

If the enemies are prepared for the knock up, you won’t get more than one people at best. My team is already used to spreading out and destroy the supports hiding behind him.

So unless we suddenly start seeing less snipers in the future, this guy can’t even leave the base entrance without suddenly losing 1000 hp. He’s a great char to pubstomp with though if the enemies refuse to flank and kill his supports first while he’s under the effect of that ult damage reduction buff. Man, that thing takes so long to cast if you have a CC, just use it right after his Lumberjack knock up and interrupt it so you can laugh at him and destroy his team.

Boldur:

A lot of people like this guy because of how great he scales but that’s the issue with him. He has to scale or he will be weaker than other chars. His stun is very conditional/annoying to use well because you will want to go for a 2-man knock to collide stun if possible and the tier to talent it into an easier knock up one is one the same as the rage trigger one.

He also doesn’t do much until level 5 because of his low attack speed and meh damage. However, once you reach that level 5 where you get the rune ult, he becomes so much stronger especilaly in the 2 sup 1 carry comp. Sadly, he’s really bad at defending the supports though. His CC can’t even be used reliably to protect his supports. He’s also a rather small char compared to all the other tanks/bruisers so he won’t be soaking bullets for the team.

However, if you do get to that late game with him, congratulation, he scales so well like Kelvin and will likely be destroying the enemy team by himself. But until then, you’re going to have to deal with all the weaknesses the enemy will exploit. It’s not the enemy team will go “OH ■■■■ IT’S BOLDUR WATCH OUT!” because at least with Kelvin, enemy will have to be aware of a stun that can easily be applied on the whole team.

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C+ Tier: They’re great but too many weaknesses or easy option to counter them and they can’t do anything about it. Need a few help to carry the game with.

El Dragon
Deande
Caldarius

El Dragon:

I love this guy and his recall animation. I unlocked most of his mutator and stomped a few games with him. Sadly, an aimbot put a dent on his record even with going 9-2 in the early game with him :C

Anyway, El Dragon is hilarious strong because this dude can really go ham and rekt. That knock up to En Fuego to a stun can easily allow you to 100-0 any squishy easily in that CC chain and maybe even wipe a team if you catch a lot of people in it. He has one of the highest DPS in the game while En Fuego is up and can be quite tanky with a few item and helix choices.

But those are not enough. El Dragon is completely countered by the current top picks like Miko who can easily just throw a stun on him because of his big body and laugh as he can no longer attack after the stun thanks to the super strong slow field. Even if you do land a knock up first, the En Fuego and Dragon splash cast animation take too long to be used right afterward. He’s also one of the easiest char to just hit and destroy because again, his body is way too big for that health pool.

His clothline knock up, while really strong, can be a pain to use… Sometime, it pushes forward really far outside the knock up range. Sometime, it pushes slightly to the side making it easy to chain to a knock up. It’s quite unreliable to use.

There’s also the issue with him doing Dragon Splash but finding no room to land so he just bounce on the enemy head for quite a while because of his body size, giving the enemy easy to room to hit him. This guy is either “Super fed and carry” or “Super starved and losing”

Deande:

“LELELE infinite juggle”

Yes, Deande uppercut juggle is extremely strong but this char can’t even be play as an assassin properly if you’re hitting anyone above 800 hp. She’s extremely slow probably because of that dress. Her ult has a long cast time. Her burst dash is unreliable without the AoE upgrade. Her clone is extremely easy to tell (huge damage on hit) and has a very simple AI.

Without the juggle, she can’t do much at all. When you pick an assassin, you want someone to make quick work and leave, not juggle them for nearly 9 seconds so they can get help. In case you’re getting juggled, quick melee her and sprint. Deande has one of the slowest movement speed and get outrun by nearly every character in the game.

So for a few good point as a super high survivability and CC assassin, she fails on every other basic assassin traits. If they ever remove Uppercut or nerf it, she’s gonna need like 5-6 compensation buff to the other part of her number and kit.

Caldarius:

So you’re a char who is always mobile.
But unless the enemy team are all nearly dead, you won’t kill anyone because his damage is SO BAD. He’s just extremely annoying to deal with but once you are used to the flash blind and remembering where to go to save yourself based on the awareness of your surronding before you are blinded, he loses his only real good point.

So yeah, he’s just a fly who will do Shard control and run away for the team but that’s pretty much it. You still rely so much on your teammate to be able to carry the game which is even harder in a 2 sup comp because they just heal or burst save someone you try to kill and you have no choice but to back off completely. If you thought Mellka damage was low, this guy had way below that.

C Tier: Really bad character. Sure you devote a lot of time to try and do well with him but he still gets overshadowed by the higher tier characters and lacked in-game impact to carry with.

Foxtrot

Foxtrot:

You probably expect me to put him lower, and I would if it weren’t for his Mutators. If you don’t have any of his mutators unlocked, he’s in his own tier that no one wants to be with.

Anyway, to quote someone that did well with Foxtrot in a few games I’ve seen.

“A crappy char without any mutator. A below average char with all mutators”

This guy doesn’t feel impactful no matter what he does. His grenade isn’t a big KABOOM like Oscar. His ult is just constant stream of damage and has no real visual impact to support it like say, ISIC who is big and you can see all his guns from afar. His mobility is good but it is so gated behind the helix and has a much longer cooldown that most because you have to waste a lot of charges sometime.

In the current state of the game, AoE + CC just win the fight so for a char to go 100% single target sustain fire, of course he’s gonna be awful when compared to the other characters. You have to take a lot more effort to do well with him when you can just drop a few grenades on Oscar and win or just press 3 buttons on Thorn and 100-0 the person while also damaging everyone around?

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Feel free to argue and discuss.

3 Likes

As some who plays Whiskey a lot, I couldn’t agree with you more. With out his killer regen mutation or his napalm mutation, he is too weak. He really needs a goddamn buff

I completly agree with you zeitzbach. Nothing more to say.

Cross-post:

Caldarius:

I don’t have the hard statistics on his damage w/ augments unfortunately, but his damage is actually too much right now in my opinion (currently rank 13 with him, was a Master of Cald before release version). The TMP does about as much damage as OM and WF’s which isn’t bad but isn’t good either.

As I’ve noted before a lot of his damage comes from the energy blade augments- at level two the 20% attack speed and later on the 18% damage buff. Without any gear you’ll be hitting around 108 damage per swipe at a ludicrously fast rate. Cald’s power comes in from combining his TMP, blade, mobility, and skills to secure kills and harass. I think it’s pretty silly to say “he’s bad because he doesn’t deal a lot of damage” (when he does pretty good damage at that). Not a character you can play or understand well unless you put the time in to do so.

All other characters:

Pretty much the last sentence above. Some of these ratings are on point but some are also rather skewed. I don’t think you know how some of them work so naturally unless you’ve seen someone who’s effective with them it’d be hard to make an accurate judgement.

1 Like

Caldarius is actually one char I spent time trying to main during Beta and was happy to play him after he got the damage buff. Even then, he was still rather meh to play compared to all the other higher tier characters. He still doesn’t produce enough threat and once I got used to the blind, he was almost no threat to deal with as I simply destroy the team he’s on. My whole group which is quite good actually has another Caldarius main but if he wants to win, Caldarius is not a go-to pick for him because he does agree with me on the same point that we both hate so much about Cald

“Great for cleaning but if the team doesn’t get the enemy low enough for him, he’s not killing anyone.”

The amount of time it takes for Cald to solo someone is quite long. Like, you can probably flash bang twice in a skirmish. It’s that long. The best thing he can do is take some attention away from the team but like I said, if the enemies are smart, they won’t dedicate 2-3 people to chase Cald anymore. They will just rush his team. That’s what I did against all enemy Cal too and it was super effective in every game.

The fix they have planned for the terrain isn’t going to stop Marquis from Sentry sniping, many others still do it from that sloping entrance to the turret room on the side of each spawn. But at least it will end the head glitching aspect of Marquis, which imho is the most annoying aspect of facing him because now virtually everyone does it.

I would put Oscar Mike into the top tier just because of his napalm AoE, it melts minion waves. I would then create an A+++ tier and put Marquis and Thorn in there since right now they can head glitch to their hearts content and wreck minion waves/Sentry single handedly.

I agree with your list for the most part. I will however say that I would move Thorn and Miko to same tier as Gal.

Miko is still too big a game changer even with the minor nerf he got. Very low skill required for how ridiculous an impact he has.

Thorn I believe has too much going on in her kit. Crazy damage potential, big range, crazy wave clear, great cc, great mobility, and on top of all this has amazing survivability too. She isn’t as simple to use like Gal but a good Thorn can be even more broken then Gal in my opinion.

Lastly there is Marquis. I feel he might be the most broken of them all but that is because he has an almost unlimited skill cap and that is dangerous for a game like this. Not everyone is going to able to utilize this potential but if a god like fps player (there are some crazy fps players out there) uses him it is ridiculous. If this game were to become an esport you would see a Marquis dominating in every tournament guaranteed. I personally don’t think a character like this should even be in the game.

We don’t know how much the terrain change will affect the game yet so we will have to wait and see.

Oscar is certainly on high tier.

Marquis is something I would put lower after the map change simply because in this game, sniping doesn’t kill instantly and give you room to react and Marquis really get rekt if you jump on him quickly unless you’re up against an aimbotter. It’s because of the stage at the moment that it’s hard to get on him. A good Toby can easily outcarry a Marquis when it come to sniping because he also provides an actual burst and CC option but right now, the hat snipe trick makes it impossible for Toby to beat him in a snipe duel. Really, it’s mainly the hat trick. When that gone and people start playing assassins more aggressively, Marquis will lose most of his power. The game even offer at least 3 ways to approach the enemy base and deal with Marquis LoS. If the team continues to turtle and play safe though then Marquis will win.

Thorn is A tier because while I do say her burst offers almost no counter play, it happens over 4 seconds in which most of the higher tier char can easily react. Most of the burst attempt happens by the Thorn shooting the ground with her ult as well so everything will land. If you have a dash or a way to blink or even turn around and silence/CC her after the blight field, you can deal with it.

Her survivability is also limited to dealing with Melee in general because when you are jumping around, it makes you an easier target for people to shoot due to lower amount of control you have even with the propel thing. You can’t just destroy the fellow high tier char with ease unlike say Galilea who to this day still 100-0 every with no room for counterplay with the desecrate pull silence to a stun. That is an example of a char who beats everyone in a 1 v 1, skirmish and teamfight no matter what, earning her the only spot as the god of all A tier.

In case of glitch, I mentioned this in another thread before. A person abusing glitch isn’t shooting the enemy team and if they stop the snipe, the shield will regen. You are given a lot of time to deal with the enemy team and force a push with that 4v 5. I’m already used to dealing with the glitch that it isn’t even a troublesome thing to fight anymore. I love it when Thorn/Marquis abuse the glitch. The moment I see that happening, I will just tell my team to go ham and we will just destroy the enemy front line before going after the Marquis/Thorn next. The best strat at the moment is to control the lightning turret, rush level and get the first 2-min and 4-min shard anyway and that’s as good GGWP.

Because there are so many picks especially all of the top picks that can still deal with Miko, I put the shroom on high A instead of A+.

Thorn for example can just outright 100-0 the Miko if Miko fails to stun-spore back at max range.

When I play something like Benedict, Miko will never be in the game after I reach 6 because of the way the headshot work against Miko that I can force all the homing rocket to become a crit which is a guaranteed death sentence to matter what the Miko does.

ISIC can just outdps the healing anyway and a few hit will kill the Miko. The charged shot slow mutator also helps against Miko survivability and if you do get a good stun on the Miko, the team can just 100-0 the shroom right there.

Generally, Miko is still vulnerable to good range attackers but like I mentioned, spore slow field certainly needs to be toned down so melee can at least play against Miko without completely relying on CC 100-0. That stun to a slowfield is a death sentence to all melee and such an option should not be available from just pressing a single button.

On Thorn

Marquis would certainly be a lot more broken but in this game, snipe doesn’t kill instantly unlike other traditional FPS games. If this game has no healer then he certainly will be on broken tier. But because healers exist, as long as your team isn’t made up a bunch of large character like Montana, Toby and El Dragon, it is very easy to deal with Marquis by direct means like rushing him or indirect means like forcing a fight in area where he can’t get a good LoS coverage from the popular snipe spot or forcing him to join in the objective contest area that leaves him a lot more vulnerable like the 2-shard spawn area or duo thrall.

Another thing to mention is that even if you press the trigger finger nonstop with an aimbot, options that 100-0 people faster than Marquis landing all the snipe hit do exist like Thorn 100-0 in Marquis’ face. If an esport team does exist and a good team has to choose who they will pick for a sniper role char, most of them will probably go for Thorn instead, which is why I also place Thorn over him.

Try picking Marquis in any other stage beside Overgrowth and you will notice a huge drop in his power and control over the game. It’s the map and only that very location that makes him super powerful. Now we just need to wait and see how much they tone that location down.

Thorn can’t head glitch at all. Most of the time even though her bow is over an object the arrow still hits what’s right in front of her.

That’s what I thought too, until I started hitting ~160-170 damage crits with the energy blade and absolutely melting every enemy. So now, the cold hard stats for Caldarius: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18T8VNgX6iNLhPq30lj7dXppVjzoNcc6fTD6KTwXGDWo/edit#gid=1832219597

The energy blade starts with a default DPS of 129 w/ 70 damage per hit. Let’s say it gains 2 damage per level (it may be 3, but w/e). By the time you get to the level for the 18% energy blade damage augment, it’ll be around 84 damage per hit. With the augment, that’ll be 99 damage per hit. Now, let’s say you also took the energy blade attack speed increase- your APS suddenly shoots up to 2.184, for a default DPS of 216. By level 7, that’s pretty alright- but let’s say you also go for critical hits, your damage per hit will be 145 for a “critical” DPS of 317.

Of course that’s all without gear, simply taking attack speed or critical damage gear makes the energy blade damage pretty ridiculous. That’s also not factoring in any kind of skill usage, so with using your ult and flashbang you’ll obviously be dealing a lot more damage.

One of the thing about “Cold hard stat sheet” is that it still doesn’t include possible tricks and all the animation canceling in this game when calculating the number.

Which Cald has almost none sadly.

For example, just look at Benedict having “92” DPS. If anyone learn him, they can force the reload timer on top of the AS Delay and in one of the trick I left in the Benedict category, allow him to shoot with infinite ammo with no reload down time on its own, doubling his DPS.

The homing bonus and surgical are multiplicative. When combined with item, my rocket does 430+ a hit. When done with reload trick, there is no reload timer as I force it all on top of the 1.0 AS delay giving me a 430+ DPS, 645 if I force a crit on easy stuffs like Miko. It does around 400 at level 7 with a 600 crit DPS. Let’s say I give you my same loadout as well which gives me 26% damage, (16% glove, 5% vest, 5% Ben legedary), your 317 dps crit becomes 399.42. Cald crit on all hit is just Benedict basic hit on a marked target.

But is this DPS included anywhere on Benedict sheet? Nope. He’s given a /2 per shot because it takes 1 sec to fire 1 sec to reload. On advanced level with animation trick and helix ready, it becomes 1 sec to fire AND RELOAD.

And Phoebe still doesn’t include the mutator which is one of her best damage source and is mandatory. The 4 whole combo stabs can’t even beat that 2 swift true strike and that if you start with true strike, the 2nd normal stab will be counted as a “Finisher” for mark proc and mutator proc.

Now if we do compare him to say,

Ghalt with double fire and tactical shell upgrade
Mellka with Venom upgrade
Boldur lategame with rune stack

It shows that Caldarius scaling is pitiful. All he gets is a steady increase. He starts with a low DPS and doesn’t jump on the DPS train anytime unlike those chars on the higher tier which can SPIKE to a whole new level once a certain helix is unlocked. The only time Caldarius actually spike in threat is on level 5 because he can now easily finish people off with a burst kick before he starts falling down again.

He’s like, that dude with a silver medal in DPS at best but a bronze medal when it comes to bursting. If he wants to go up to B tier, he will need at least two silver medals or a gold medal somewhere to give him an advantage like Rath getting gold on one-trick-pony bursting putting him at B- instead of C+.

Yes she can. I saw her doing it multiple times just last night. All you can see of her is part of the top of her bow yet she can still shoot you.

I haven’t tried it but I wouldn’t be surprised if most ranged characters can do it.

That’s fine and dandy if you’re on a team with communication but for most people queuing solo means most people ignore the Marquis sniping your Sentry and it’s suicide to rush into their area to deter him, especially if he’s back on the slope sniping the Sentry. And forget about it if you have a melee character.

Unless they remove the ability to walk up that slope, it will still be very easy for him to snipe the Sentry and take it down quickly, which will keep him at the Super Ultra Deluxe tier for Overgrowth.

100% disagree with Whiskey’s placement. For mellka you argue that it takes her to level 8 before she’s a serious threat and gets a damage spike but Whiskey is SERIOUS threat as early as level 5 (when he can melt even a tanks face with one ult). Without mutators I believe that not only can he handle himself and basically carry a game or be extremely impactful (he has good sustained damage from a distance, and good waveclear imo). With mutators Whiskey can carry games. His last normal helix “What Shields” alone makes him a problem (completely bypasses shields and goes straight to health on his ult). I think people also underestimate his speed and jumping ability as well (mostly for getting away when people get inside his effective range) and when you have his level 2 helix and flak them to get away they take EXTRA damage. His passive combat rhythm, works off of shards (dunno if thats a glitch or not but its basically a buff for nothing).
I’d personally put him at least B- tier considering his damage.

Comparing with a borderline exploit is pretty silly. I’d be happy to do a statistical comparison with Mellka later on though.

I also believe you have Attikus a bit too high, I haven’t seen him as being too impactful in games but maybe I just haven’t seen him enough, Cal is a bit low and I kinda think Rath is pretty much trash at this point but I think that’s just because of the characters I play, most of the time I see Rath as more of a liability to my team or the others than an asset considering 99% of them think he’s invincible due to his little lifesteal kicker. He’s not truly an issue until he can Ult and even then as you pointed out CC stops him dead in his tracks so he’s a good pub stomp for people who are like level 1-10 but if you have even one person on your squad who actually knows to just CC him it might as well be a 4v5.

How is it an exploit though? It’s damage stacking and it’s part of animation canceling. Everyone in this game can cancel attack into reload. Benedict is just the only one who does one reload at a time instead of a full mag.

The keyword with Mellka is that she becomes a HUGE threat at level 8. She is already a threat starting at level 1. She is like playing WHiskey whose mobility isn’t completely gated behind Helix. Her passive also gives the damage she needs to compete with his passive while being much more reliable and likely does even more damage.

At level 1 to 4, Mellka does more DPS than Foxtrot thanks to DoT add-on unless Foxtrot can keep his buff up permanenetly.

AT level 5, Foxtrot can do more dps for a short amount of time but Mellka gains a tool to start bursting squishy.

And at level 8, Mellka forever outDPS foxtrot because a single stray bullet adds a crapton amount of damage. Also, more ammo, more damage before a reload. Foxtrot needs to have his ult up to actually beat her in the DPS area.

In case of Attikus, it’s because a 2 sup 1 Attikus comp is very deadly and he has way more reliable CC than the other tank if the Attikus knows what he is doing. Even 1 sup 1 attikus is good enough. If you have some communication with Attikus and know when he’s about to ult, you can easily do a 2-man or 3-man kill with in that knock up chain of his that offers very little room to play against when it is active. However, if the Attikus suck or the team lack communication then he will appear to be much weaker than he should be even with his late game hard carry status.

Cal being low is explained to Dr_kleese. He has one of the worst scaling for an assassin/skirmisher in this game with and isn’t even a threat in the early game. He has too many helix choices that force him to upgrade range, speed or size of the attack. All the high tiers have a lot of impact spike choices or are constantly given choices to stack more and more damage. Easiest example are Phoebe with her mutator (6 spike choices) or Thorn (Nearly every level gives her some kind of way to increase her damage through passive or direct spell damage choice)

Now, crude calculations for Mellka. As usual my basis: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18T8VNgX6iNLhPq30lj7dXppVjzoNcc6fTD6KTwXGDWo/edit#gid=1832219597

I’m not entirely sure how the DPS is calculated on Mellka so I can’t include any damage scaling. I’d say there will probably be an error margin of +/- 15 DPS. Assuming Mellka can keep her poison applied 24/7 while she’s attacking her target, the DPS comes up to 179 (which btw, WF’s DPS of 186 with his passive is more than 179). Even if her poison damage DPS went up by 100% due to the augment and her base DPS went up by 10% from damage scaling, that would still be a DPS of 218, just about matching Cald. So the same “pitiful steady increase” you mentioned.

I highly doubt her poison damage goes up by 100% though the base DPS increase is probably accurate. If you have hard statistics to back up your claims I would love to see them. I obviously haven’t tested mine so they’re really just ballpark guesses but I’ll be seeing how accurate they are later on today.

Now, all that said this analysis of characters based off of how much damage their primary weapon does is silly, considering that ignores the other 90% of the character such as skills, size/hitbox, mobility, utility, role, etc.