My Review of What needs to be done to make the game better.Balance and Nerfs

Hey, I played the beta on pc to lvl 47 and I played these three characters mainly, Caldarius, Ambra and Ghalt atleast 25 games on each . I also play smite, League of Legends and Over watch.My ign on steam was FightTheTilt.

Through Playing the game intensively mainly incursion mode I realized there are some blatant problems regarding the map and the color schemes, including the highlighting of characters (enemies and allies during combat).

Enviromental Issues:

It took me a while to get into incursion mode, because as I played the characters I felt very overwhelmed and found it hard to focus on characters during the combat especially when playing melee units.

My biggest issue was the map design, there is a problem that involves marquis especially, if left unattended he can snipe from his side of the map to the other side hitting the centry if unattended, and he can take it down.

Oscar Mike’s helix and kit are to powerful, especially his DoTs and his Ultimate, allows him to wave clear, deal damage and siege easily without any pressure. I have lost many games to him because of us losing first sentry and he snipes from the our supply area.You need to re-design those two spots to prevent these cheesy tactics. To much I have felt that the game has not been being played as it was intended because of these two map exploits, unless it was intended to be that way specifically.

Character Balance:

There is one big problem in the game and it is the amount of characters tanks and supports that have hp regen options and the fact that there is nothing to prevent them from healing especially against a team with double support.My worst experience was fighting against galilea , miko and ambra also healing her . It was unbearable. You need to give us options that reduce healing power. It is so bad that it makes playing assassin type characters irrelevant to play , because they don’t do enough damage.

Galilea :

Needs a serious nerf. Her helix is ridiculous when combined with a support and the damage she deals plus her survivability makes no sense. Tanks should not be able to deal that much damage. Tanks , should have high survivabilty and low damage. Other games have this problems, but what is the point of having a front line that cannot be punished for overextending or being overly-aggressive. Please reassess your idea on tanks competitively, look at other mobas and see where they went wrong to help you with balance.

Caldarius:
I think there is an arche-type in the game , which is assasin/skirmisher, I have played him to rank 11 . I have realised his tmp is to weak, and he can’t exactly kill anyone easily. It felt as If I was a like a support. He has good mobility but is damage is really bad and not worth the risk you have to take , with this much healers and tanks in the game. I have felt really behind at many points when I have played him.

Ambra:
Despite her nerf, she was still very strong, because they aren’t abilities /gear directed to dealing with the regen this support gives. She has to much survivabilty because of her fire shield and the fact that she can survive for to long is annoying.

-Make some mechanic available to deal with these high sustain heroes.

Indicators and Mechanics:

There needs to be a way to make communication more fluent. When the game launches, it would be nice to have an indicator that marks the path players are suppose to take etc. I suggest looking at overwatch and smite games for certain ideas like the “v-chat” and stuff like that . Ping commands that highlight objectives and areas.

A system to report and punish toxic players in ranked.

I personally would like an option to switch to third person when playing melee units .

Colorblind Mode Option

A banning system in ranked and also, no mirror mode.

Please revisit the situation with tanks and the amount of damage they can deal plus their ability to survive with sustain

Thank you.

You can change color options for allies and enemies. Also, i’m starting to think they should just remove Brawler from Galilea’s bio and replace it with Tank, everyone thinks she is a tank when she is not listed as such. Then they’d nerf her damage :smiley: because she’d be a tank.

I played until lvl 63 and I disagree with your assessments. I think you are not taking into account overall balancing. When you have someone like ambra and gal being hard to kill and being close range characters, you have a more diverse game that isn’t based on pure shooter type mentality. I would argue, Marquis, Oscar Mike, Thorn, etc with range and high damage output would dominate if you didn’t have this close range power competing. Even still a really good Marquis is probably the best way to kill other players. I like the balance as it is, I think if you start nerfing regen you will have snipers and gun based chars dominating. Also the blind effect from Caldarius can do a lot of work in team battles. I think he is balanced fine.

Cool, What about Marquis being able to snipe shield of the sentry from the other side of the map?The regen issue is a problem and I get what you are saying about the balance, but it’s still an issue especially with teams that have no coordination aka “solo queue”. Galia also has the only HEALING DEBUFF in the game. So I don’t get it , how competetive have you really gotten, if two healers are healing her you cannot kill her, get past the shield which has like 1k hit points , then you have to deal with a healer , healing her along with her passive regen. Sounds Balanced. I never said remove it. I said tone it down a bit, because if it takes more than 2 people to take down a single character and a specific team comp, it’s to strong.Tanks should have to give up something to be balanced, you shouldn’t be able to have high damage and tankiness at the same time, one or the other, because that’s what you do when specializing classes. “Really good Marquis” I am sure you are gonna find alot of good Marquis’s out there. Miko and Galia combo + another support is to hard to take down, because of the mitigation, you need to acknowledge that. You can solo adcvanced Hardcore with Galilea lol.

The other point also, Caldarius can’t really solo anyone imo. I played him to rank 11 , when you are behind with him , you are really behind. He can’t really fully combo and kill an isolated target easily until he hits lvl 5 and gets ult. He definitely has no options besides"light harass and run. His style is hit and run , and he is weak. I love him, love the mobility, he isn’t good for incursion, I think he is stronger on the paradise map, which is more based around roaming and team fighting. I just feel like he is a very situational pick, when they are not many situations.

I’ve played in the CTT and PS4 Beta and this Beta
This Beta I had 2 accounts, 1st was LVL 50, however due to the loadout bug I couldnt use gear, so I made a new one which I hit 38 on.

Most Played Characters: Thorn, Deande, Gallilea, Isic, Rath, and little bit o Ghalt (becuase he’s op as fuck)

[Incursion enviromentals]

Overwhelmed by what? You didnt really specify

As for melee, incursion teaches a very important rule for melee heroes. Dont blind rush in, you’ll just die. Pick your battles. Even a Gallilea with two healers isnt going to last long with a Sentry gunning at her.

[Cheese]
Well you just told us how to stop Marquis from killing the Sentry…sit on him.

First off you dont even have to sit on him 100% of the time. Sentries have HUGE shields, you just got to give them enough time to recharge then its another minute of Marquis not shooting you and shooting a shield.

Second, he’s not the only hero that can do this, almost all range can do it. Thorn, Mike, Isic, hell even Gallilea with her 3rd helix and full health can.

And thats not the only cheese strat either. Mobile Heros like Isic, Benedict, Thorn, Mellka and Deande can back door Spider Sentry via double Merc side. Just hop the cave wall and shoot at Spider Sentries’ foot.

Are these strats annoying? Yes! Are they game breaking? Not really. Because it doesnt take a lot to dissaude them from doing it. You’re on home ground and you have the advantage, most of the time they’ll just run or hide. And while all this is happening they not pushing minions or helping. Just trying to whittle down a huge shield and any pressure on them will negate their efforts because the shield will just regenerate. Unless of course you leave them unchecked then thats just your own fault. Defense is just as important as offense.

Not only can you stop people from doing these strats, you can also do them yourself. Unless of course you run an all melee no support team but in that case dear god why? (With exception of Deande / Gallilea they can cheese)

[Oscar]
I actually feel he’s in a good place. Never really had a problem with him and many other Heroes have good wave clear while being safe, Thorn and Orendi are good examples.

[2nd Base staging]
I agree, once the enemy takes over this area of yours after killing your Spider Sentry, a comeback is a LOT more difficult. Short of killing them all and pushing out theres not much you can do, they can just snipe last boss from supply depot.

Most teams surrender shortly after Spider Sentry dies because of this. Talking like 70%+

[Character Balance]

[Gallilea]
Dont get me wrong I think Gallilea could use a nerf, but not because of her Tankiness, or her melee damage.

Melee’s need a bit of meat to get in and out of the fray in a FPS game, you know where almost everyone has a ranged advantage over them.

The problem with Gal is that she can have one of the best ranged damages in the game. If you take her 3rd level helix to make her shoot bolts of pwnage at full health, and build some attack speed, she’ll be machine gunning down enemies across the map in no time.

however without this, an average fight goes a little like Blight>Stun>auto them down to around 40% health, then the chase begins. A good player will melee you away and shoot you with ranged. You wont be at 100% health so you cant fire ranged back. However if you engage from behind them, normally they’ll be confused and you should land a kill. This is pretty balanced. As player knowledge increases they’ll be more likely to react better and get away.

However this is not a 1v1 game, this is a team game. Gal is an initator that locks down enemies and increases damage with blight.
Giving teams an in. With out being at least a bit surviable she’ll stun blight and die. Without Damage, she wont even be able to 1v1 anyone.

So like I said, Its not her survivability, or her damage that needs a nerf. It’s her ability to range shoot beams of death.

as for Gal + Support:
-If you’re facing a Gallilea + Support alone, you’re doing it wrong
-If you’re facing a Gallilea + Support, with your team mate and shooting the Gallilea(Or any other Hero for that matter). You’re doing it wrong.
-Anyone with a support is tanky, asssuming the support knows how to play their hero.

Verdict: Nerf ranged attack and is K.

[Caldarius]:

Honestly I dont have much experience with this one. But a friend I played with always walked away with 10+ kills as a Caldarius main.

He seemed to be doing a few things.
-Chasing: Caldarius is SUPER MOBILE, he can chase down low health runners like no bodies business.
-Ulting: I’ve seen him on more than one occassion 1 shot a full health Hero with his ult.
-Gathering objectives to keep his level advantage. Being mobile as ■■■■ you can be places that you need to be before others. This means you can build ■■■■ for xp, kill minions and gather shards, kill enemy equips and help in team kills with out missing a beat. #AllLevelsMatter

Verdict: He could probably use a buff but still can preform with out it.

[Ambra]:
I’ve seen good Ambras and bad Ambras, either or they’re fairly simple to shut down. If you know how to CC. There are 3 things that make an Ambra tanky. Sunspots, Life drain from her Beam, and Her passive shield.

So if you kill sunspots, and use any form of CC, suddenly she’s not very tanky at all. Except for that pesky overshield. The only CC that isnt very effective against her is a slow. And the only champions that have only a slow CC is long ranged ones, so if they’re near Ambra, they’re probably out of position.

Verdict: Just fine.

[Last points]

-Make some Mechnic available to deal with high sustain heroes:
There is. It’s called CC and Focus fire. Use C to mark a target, or the in game voice chat, or type it out and aim for supports and CC the ■■■■ out of them. Oh and Gallilea has things to stop healing too in her helix :smiley:

-Communication:
C to mark Targets or ping areas.
In game voice chat.
In game text Chat.

-System to report / punish toxic players: I wish, or at least time out for leavers / afkers.

-Third Person: Yes please.

-Colorblind mode: Its labeled as Team colors under gameplay options you can personally select the colors from an array of very viable colors. But could be made more apparent for people to find.

-Picks and Bans: Would be great…with more Heroes to play. But 25 is pretty limited atm.

-Tanks: The only tank that really needs revisiting is Boldur. He’s kind of weak because he does no damage with his ult down.

[Ghalt]:
If you’re going to be saying OP Hero X is OP, yet you main Ghalt, you should probably start with him. He’s a SUPER carry with CC for days.

First off He has a Long range hook, that can pull you into a 2 second stun that does damage…while he blasts you in the face with his shot guns.

Btw those shotguns crit for 800-1200 damage. He literally 3 shots Merc camps in Incursion. Oh did I mention he can increase his range to make those shotgun shots snipe?

Massive damage with a hook and stun while he’s safe on his side of the map with his team. Way more OP than any Gallilea and Ambra Combined.

3 Likes

I agree with everything you’ve said, and saying it with far more detail than I cared to invest. Though I have seen Boldur do some real work in some high level pretty competitive games. His charge won a game for the other team in a match I was in. That said you still may be right.

I fully agree with you on ghalt, though even then I would say he should be left alone for a while and seen how much he can be shut down. We had a pretty good ghalt against us in a game and we were able to focus him pretty quickly because of his slowness and seeming squishyness.

If you play Boulder right, then post level 5 you can pretty much permanently be in your ult (except in the really hairy situations, like defending winning team pushes on incursion after first sentry is down). Obviously the early game before unlocking his ult can still be a bit of a slog. More XP for objective items/buildables could help him and other characters that are more suited to assisting rather than killing.

Totally agree about Gal’s range option. It should either do less damage or just not be there.

Also, I really think the wound mechanic needs to be spread to more than just Gal. It would be ideal for shutting down Gal and Ambra and other sustainer and sustainer/healer combos. There are several characters with lackluster helix choices that would benefit being changed to an option to add the wound mechanic (like Boulder’s axe throw amd the bleed helix option)

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Personally I feel like the 2 most OP characters are the snipers. Marquis and Thorn. They seem to be balanced not by stats but by player skill and this is inherently the problem. It takes more skill to play them, but if you have high level skills you have the best character. However, many people will perceive it differently because they don’t have the skill to play them to their fullest potential, so they may not seem imbalanced to bad and average players.

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Good post, maybe you should make a post about thoughts etc. Yes I agree with most of what you have said except about Ghalt. They also gave him recent buff to, 800-1200 damage???At what stage of the game, level 10?His regular attacks did about 200 and x coming down to late levels, so I don’t believe what you are saying. He has a high skill cap and I don’t think the average player will excel with him. Pertaining to the grab mechanics. I’m not attacking the game or saying it’s bad I like it, I just want it to be good as I have invested my money it it. But good feedback. I just feel for this game the tagging button with c, just seems to flat , also have you played smite? I like the feature when you can hold alt and mark an area on the map. I still feel like the pvp isn’t really beginner friendly…oh yeah I also forgot , maybe they should put a level limit on rank, like you must be x-level to play ranked or something.

So with Ghalt, he’s using a shotgun revolver. The closer you are, the more damage you do. This screen shot was at Lvl 5 and Lvl 6 on the same target a Deande that he killed IN THE STUN. not to mention the 162 damage from the stun itself that ticked multiple times.
So in these screenshots alone we have a medium range target, damage goes up if you’re closer and Ghalt fires 2 rounds and a trap that Deals 768, 607, and 162 all in the span of 2 seconds. AT LVL 5.

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/suzaku0089/v/61313663 time 5:48:35 - 5:48:40

37 Seconds He Grabs her
38 Seconds She Holotwins, which he one shots and she still gets stunned And does half her shields.
40 Seconds He does 607 + 162 half a second later lands the 768 and shes dead.

It’s really not that hard to land the grab, you take the talent that increases speed and range by 35% and it’s point and click. Not to mention she even holotwined mid grab and STILL GOT STUNNED

I could find a clip of him doing more damage but this one shows that he’s too damn strong anyways. Galilea will get you to about 40% health in a stun. Ghalt Gets you dead.

Btw: Feel free to check out and follow Suzaku0089 he’s a cool guy nerd points for him.

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Nice.

Eh. Thorns arrows sure but her abilities are nice big’ol AoE’s, sniper with great wave clear/aoe. Weaker bow/better AoE would make it better for beginners while making it less powerful for expert shots

So marquis damage comes from his passive just pumping out the more accurate head shots which takes skill will max your damage and you’ll be destroying kids left and right.

Thorn takes skill and is very strong because not only do you have to land shots. You can’t really do it from a safe range if you want to do any real damage.

Thorn’s damage comes from A) Keeping her curse up, which increases charge shot, volley and blights damage B) Being close enough to hit someone with all arrows from Volley and Blight.

So you’re doing these things jumping around trying to not die while landing charged headshots and weaving in and out to hit them with shotgun volleys. Because just arrows alone arent really going to do the job and neither is just skills.

But hey thats just my opinion :smiley:

How about they just release it as is and we just play it?

For god’s sake, it’s a game. Can we not just have fun with it?

When are people going to learn that implementing “nerfs” almost never actually improves the game. It sends the devs on an endless cycle of tweaking and retweaking because each time something is nerfed it pisses someone off.

Gearbox, just release the game and let it be.

The only characters I find frustratingly OP are Ambra and Ghalt. The rest I am okay with. My 2 cents.

From what I gathered, the open beta was both to test it, so they could avoid Day 1 patch syndrome, and so people could get a taste of the game.

The game is done, it’s being printed and shipping as we speak.

Yes, the beta was a stress test.