Need help with builds, please. I thought I was playing well

Dugie and I have very different outlooks sometimes :joy: He’s very very good at working solo and crushing things. I tend to think of myself as a co-op queen. We’re both just putting down what we see as our best ideas to help =]

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That makes sense, his strategy above is more or less how me and Jay role, though he does not use seein’dead and uses a nukem to kill himself alot… Yet I was surprised he didn’t mention a CCC Zane and an icebreaker cryo rakk build when on the subject of synergy, though I’m gonna assume that was to avoid more complex synergies.

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Too much overlap in two cryo parties. Zane’s gonna want to do the freezing because CCC, but Fl4k having an Icebreaker would absolutely help demolish. That’s how one of my setups works. I run a cryo Zane that keeps everything off tilt, and @spacerobots has a melee Fl4k that sneaks through and demolishes the sculptures.

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CCC Zane is assumed because that’s his current baseline build. As for tweaks, that was discussed via DM.

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He’s playing Zer0 on m4? How’s that working for him?

Not to derail, but this is their thread for it. We’ve been doing good co-op. We actually tore through the dlc with that setup the weekend it came out.

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I remember that thread I haven’t checked it out since the shield glitch resurfaced.
Btw one day they may get bored with op builds and use that so I wouldn’t consider it really derailing

Yeah…They’re not happy about the glitch, but they try to reset when possible

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You get the maximum benefits of speed = dmg when you are sliding, jumping, or falling. But if you can keep your shots on the crit spots of targets while hip fire strafing then it’s worthwhile in that context also, otherwise you are better off ADS-ing and only moving forwards/backwards while consistently landing head shots.

Not significantly. You just need to tighten up your head shot consistency and play a little more aggressively. Don’t hesitate to get in the enemies face because w/ the Deterrence Field augment your barrier will stumble them and you have guns that benefit from close range (e.g., Maggie and Star Helix), plus you have enough movement speed (3/5 Violent Speed) to quickly run away if you miscalculate and over extended yourself.

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Let’s start with what I did with the Amara build, since it’s the least important. I took Infusion out and spread the points around a little bit. Infusion steals damage from your guns main element and turns into action skill element. Forceful Expression add your AS element on top of your damage. She’s gonna want to use elemental guns, since she has point in swapping, so the bonus damage is just gonna be icing, and having Infusion would just pull her down a little.

Sustainment will give you health back for dealing damage with elemental weapon. If she’s firing a lot, and she should be, then this makes the regen from clarity kinda useless. So I moved those points to helping hands, to give more damage reduction, so she takes less damage and thereby needs healing less.

On top of that, Fist Over Matter’s best feature isn’t that it’s the only grasp skill that procs Samsara. It actually can consistently give you 5 stacks of Samsara. That’s gonna be healing and gun damage. I took the points from Vigor, because Fist Over Matter will rarely kill an enemy, sadly, on m4.

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Now for the Fl4k and Zane team. This is gonna get messy, but I think I’m really proud of this set up.

Dugie made a really good point up top: Cryo on shields is a very bad day. Rakk’s are also fire, which is not fun against shields either. So what we’re gonna do is have your wife become a spell caster of sorts. In a perfect world, you’ll get a lifesteal Brainstormer for her. What we’re gonna do is get a shield and a grenade with Action Skill End Elements (henceforth, ASElements). You’re probably gonna want them in cryo and radiation. But anything will work as long as they’re different. Since Rakks the action skill ends immediately on release, their damage receives the ASElement damage. The Brainstormer will also chain more with these. We want the Non-14 pellet version because you’ll get the max limit of chains from the ASElements, and it’ll be more ammo efficient. With Leave No Trace, you can regain a bullet every few shots. This gives more return if you’re only firing a single bullet at a time.

Two Fang was pulled because adding a single pellet to a shot gun won’t be very helpful. I pulled the middle top blue skill because we got more damage from other places and there’s no Duration for Rakks.

The Brainstormer will keep Furious Attack up at max ranks so the pet will do more damage. He bites will help keep frenzy up you her and pet do more damage. I moved some of those two fang points around. Headcount will get Rakks back faster. Be warned. It bugs sometimes.

The plan is gonna be for Fl4k to strip shields, fire Rakks. Rakks will get the Deadeye bonus. Send skag to hit another enemy, or charge the one she attacked to finish them off.

So. The lifesteal Brainstormer. Because of All My BFFs, a lifesteal Brainstormer will keep both of you healed up, as well as the pupper.

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Now for Zane. What I’ve done is focus on getting you maximum turn over. I don’t know what weapons you have, but you’re gonna want, between you and clone, to put out as many shots as possible…this will cause clone to throw grenades as much as possible, which will keep enemies off balance because of Whispering Ice singularity effects. This will help keep you both safe as you organize on the field. If you can get bubbled on all of you, awesome. But feel free to also bubble yourself and take on an enemy when necessary.

I moved Speed to Momentum. More momentum gives you more damage at less speed, which means you’ll get to keep better aim while getting more damage.

I couldn’t really decide a lot of Green Tree. A lot of this is gonna flip a bit when you get Topped Off.

I kept a point in Duct Tape and in Best Served Cold, but I’m not sure if you’ll want them. But the point in Pocketful will let you load and blow your clone whenever, wherever. Without running out of boom enhance fuel. Supersonic man is more speed for your momentum. Dugie left a lot of good Zane advice to.

Giving the clone a shock Lob in this build will do a lot of good things right now. But the clone can’t Brainfreeze with that. Ohhh. If you get a cryo Lob though. Consider the Wedding invitation and small movements as well. Your team has a lot of moving parts.

I’m always open to questions, also. I just figured this setup might make it so you can keep the layouts you loved while gaining some extra synergies.

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I actually have several cryo lobs that I do like to hand off to the clone every now and then.

I also just picked up a Shocking AAA with a digi-swap reload anoint (meh) and a quasar. With the transformer, my brainstormer, and my electric banjo… I could go for clone and drone with radiation and shock and have an insane chain Zane… But that’s for fun later. Oops. Sorry. I still need a redistributer for that anyway.

So far, after reading your ideas and investing in those points, my wife and I are having a blast farming m3 for the gear you suggested, and if she starts feeling a little braver after the kiddos get to bed we’ll probably tackle m4.

I don’t know how hard this was for you to put together but I know you didn’t have to take the time to do it. Thank you so much! You’ll never know how much we appreciate this.

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I also grabbed a Brainstormer with ASE Melee 100, and since the skag’s attacks are all melee, that would count right? It’s the closest I have to what you suggested so far.

I picked up a Cryo Conference Call… The idea there seems like it would be amazing to toss the clone to keep up CCC as much as possible. Am I thinking about that right?

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Melee probably won’t work that way, but who knows, you might discover something we missed.

Cryo CC is a fun Clone weapon!

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Oh, don’t worry, I love puzzles. And this was a good one, trying to figure out how to improve your experience without taking away the flavors that made it something you enjoyed in the first place. I’m just glad I could help! Also. Rakk Skag sounds like a really fun combo and I might try that myself sometime!

I LITERALLY JUST REMEMBERED.

The Storm sniper rifle is a good shield stripper and Brainfreeze device. I can’t remember if I mentioned that here or not.

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You seem to have a much better grasp on this whole build thing than I do, but I still have questions.

I admit, I often take Two Fang by default, even if it doesn’t make much sense for some weapons, but what about cosmic shadow? True, it’s a Rakk Attack build, so having action skill damage bonuses is important. But the build also uses Megavore, and even if all crits only came from that skill triggering, Cosmic Shadow would still do a bit more damage than that fifth point in Grim Harvest. Then there is also the aspect of enemies being less likely to attack Fl4k, which might be important considering they barely have any health regeneration. Is that really wise? Shouldn’t they at least have Falconer’s Feast? Being entirely dependent on health steal anoints seems a bit risky and makes it harder to try different weapons.

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One thing I did here was try not to change too much of what was already in play from their original builds. But when I look at Galactic Shadow, what I see is a skill for Gamma/Fade-Vore builds. That’s just kinda how I view it, and cranking up the damage for the Rakks when they’re one of the things that makes the game fun for you is always a good idea.

Re: Falconer’s. I just kept the augments they had. I think Falconers is a direct % and I just figure the idea of zapping health away through a Brainstormer felt cool.

On a related note, a barrier clone Zane as a partner and a horned skag means there’s a lot of enemy targeting chaos to go around. Lol.

good point with Zane in the team.

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She doesn’t have a lot of regen on her own, but her damage is high enough now (and she’s also using a transformer) that we don’t have to worry too much about healing. I have deterrence on my dome right now, but if we ever need it I’ll let the AS end so I can swap it out for the heal-y one. Can’t remember the name right off… But either way it wasn’t hard to compensate for and since we rarely play separately it’s cool. :grin: