Nerf Deande, buff El Dragon

This is the answer, found in your own post.

Trying any character and expecting to be a god is the wrong answer. Practice with any character makes them good. Even so, every character has their own strengths and weaknesses; if you went against a trained Dragon as your Deande, you’d lose.


I think Dragon’s tankyness changes dramatically as the game goes on. Once he gets levels 5 and 6 his durability spikes a lot. Once he gets level 9, he’s one of the most durable characters in the game.

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El Dragon that uses max hp gear, his life steal and his damage reduction. Late game El Dragon can soak upwards 6,000 damage before he dies.

TOBY (wearing fake mustache):
Nerf Benedict, Buff Toby!

(Seriously though, both characters are damn near perfect where they are, especially Deande)


The same could be said for any characters. Why bother using the ones that are difficult to learn when you could easily pick up any of the higher tier battleborn?

If you like the character, learn them. Almost everyone has a favorite battleborn because they love their play style, abilities, attitude, lore, or they have certain charm to them that attracts the player.

I was immediately drawn to Toby during the beta days, and I was not very good with him at all. It just takes time to learn from your mistakes and figure out which tactics work for you. Even if people recommend certain gear or helix choices, they might not work for you. If you like El Dragon, keep trying.


Mind posting a picture of one of your Deande matches?

I was talking more about how she can use her drop kick to go any direction, even straight up


I’m sorry, what? If you’ve only played Deande as much as what you say you have, then I hate to break it to you, but you’re in no position to demand for Deande nerfs. I’m also curious as to how she is ‘cheap’. Please explain? Was it because you got several kills without dying? Believe it or not, ANY character can do that when played right, even El Dragón. All it takes is practice.

Now I’m no pro when it comes to El Dragón, (I’d probably go something like 0-10 as him in a match), but I can definitely speak on behalf of Deande; she does not, in any way, shape, or form, need a nerf. Like the majority of people here, I think that both El Dragón and Deande fit their respective roles nicely as of now.

False. Both characters have high skill ceilings in my opinion, not just the one. It’s simply knowing the capabilities of each character, how to be effective with them, which helices and gear work best. It’s also knowing their weaknesses as every character can be countered, people that are skilful with a certain battleborn will learn to play around said counters. With Deande, there are many things a good player needs to consider; being able to take advantage of opportunities is one such example, otherwise you’re not going to make much of an impact. She’s most certainly not someone you can play with your eyes closed as you described it. That would be Boldur. Joking aside though, I’d say that mastering Deande is very difficult, and the same goes for El Dragón in his own way of course.

For the same reasons that I bother with Deande. If someone likes a character, which could be because of looks, personality, playstyle, etc, then they’ll strive to get better with them. Only with dedication and perseverance will you ever get better; after all, this game has a high learning curve, so you can’t instantly expect to be good at it. So if you like playing El Dragón, I recommend taking the advice that others more decent at playing him than myself have offered, and give the champ another chance.


Deande OP shh


You’re not helping… :sob:


I can help here.

As said by many before Dragon is a glass cannon, his “Tankiness” comes from his passive stacking attack damage and damage reduction up to 10 stacks.
You don’t rush in with clothesline you run over and begin attacking. Clothesline will help you get out of tight situations but shouldn’t be used to chase down enemies or initiate combat.
His best helices are those that improve his survivability by increasing his DR or adding life steal.
Dragon Splash is best for wave clear, En Fuego boots his other abilities and attack damage.

In conclusion do not treat Èl Dragon as Montana or Boldur, he is nothing like them.

This was very simplified because I can’t explain well.
I know this info as someone who learned from both failure and other experience as well as my own.


They did buff Dragon and I think he is where he should be.

Now Deande was cheap when she came out. Thanks to those stupidly broken uppercuts, but now? I she’s pretty balanced.

Because El Dragon is too damn charismatic I ■■■■■■■ LOVE that guy!

But seriously, he’s only good if he gets ahead, and someone like Mike or Whiskey can shut him down. (Critz 4 lyfe)

Deande on the other hand is just irritating to fight. My advice to you is to kill the clone before it gets close to you, and chase Deande. (The cloak shimmer is tough to see, but if you’ve got enough game sense, you can usually predict where she’ll be.)

That clone has a very long cooldown, and if she fails to kill her target, she’s not got much to do.

Neither of them need changes, imo. They’re both more skill based than people like to admit.

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Not only does Deande need practice with her, she also is one of the most team dependent characters in the whole cast. Without a competent team behind her back, she is a noob killer, but nothing more. She desperately needs a team that follows up on her attacks (e.g., blink storm), gives her enough freedom to roam around, creates some chaos where she can hide in (to avoid that people ping her and reveal her while diving behind the enemy line).

  • Hitting crits with burst dash is an art for itself, especially if there is some lag involved. Crits hurt, but I treat every one I land as a fluke.

  • Missing a calculated risk burst dash leaves you without any protection from critical hits and you are standing right beside your enemy’s face.

  • Blink storm makes you very vulnerable before, while and after using it.

  • A silence, slow or knockup can mess up so many things.

  • Kleese or even a simple shock turret can drain your shields and ruin your damage potential.

  • You always have to walk on that thin line between too far behind and overextending. If you are building too much in the background you force your team into 4v5, if you are too aggressive, you run into the danger of only trading kills and the XP your enemy gets from killing you will hurt your team more than your XP progress helps them.

Full disclosure, I’m not playing her even close to competitive level, but I’ve played her enough in different situations (with competent teammates, with uncooperative teammates, against low skilled opponents, against people with more than triple the amount of time spent in this game as me).

Would I record five of my matches with her, I could most probably use the footage to create both a montage that makes me look like the worst scrub in the world and one that makes me look like I’m more skilled than I truely am. No offense against anyone, but this is also true for almost any Deande I’ve seen ingame or on streams.

I’ve never seen anyone just pick Deande for the first time and make her work against a worthy opponent. All of the players I’ve seen who perform well with her spent a long time learning her. Awareness, teamwork and positioning are vital.

If I’m allowed to say so (as no member of the competitive scene): I think she’s in a very good spot. High risk, high reward, but there are so many things that can go wrong with playing her that I just don’t see her anywhere close to being an instant win character.


The most directional OP in the game has to be Thorn, in any direction especially up.


I insist.

Deande is a noobmode cheapskate I can play with my eyes closed.

El Dragon is very difficult and requires a lot of attempts to be mastered.

If I were to choose characters only on winning, and not on how much I like their design and personality, I would NEVER use El Dragon.


Move over y’all… new Deande in town.


I suggest a 1v1 with @Nemosis327:smirk:

He will humble you…


If he wins against Nemo does that mean he has already achieved perfection?
My money’s on the guy that plays with his eyes closed