New Capstones?!

Since we have been told several times that we will not be getting new VH’S. I thought it might be a good time to see what other players thought about future upgrades to our current VH’s.

So we have had 2 level cap increases, 3 levels first, then 4. Let’s assume they keep a progressive nature and do 5, and 6 with the final DLC. That will end us at level 68 with 66 skill points. That’s 2 Capstones and nearly halfway through a third tree. To counter this, I propose new multi-point Capstones. If we could spend more/less points in our final skill it could offer some new depth in a build. I think 3 points per cap is enough, that would be 9 new places to spend skill points.

I don’t have much experience with Zane or Amara, so I won’t deal in things I don’t know much about. But I have some ideas for Moze and Fl4k.


Shield of Retribution - Evasive Maneuvers
The lower Moze’s shield is, she gains movement speed. Up to 15% per point ( max of 45%)

Bottomless Mags - Unending Ordinance
When Moze would have to reload, she gains weapon damage. This effect can stack 10 times, stacks decay after 15 seconds. 3.3% per point ( max of 100% )

Demolition Woman - Master Blaster
Moze takes reduced damage from splash damage. Self inflicted damage reduction is doubled. -10% per point ( max of 30% enemy 60% self )


Hunter - Alpha Hunter
Fl4k gains life steal on critical hits. 1% per point ( max of 3% )

Stalker - Predator
Fl4k gains weapon damage the longer an action skill is active. 1%/second per point ( max of 3%/second )

Master - Loyalty
Fl4k’s pet gains damage from all sources the longer they are active. Switching pets or pets being downed resets bonus. This effect can stack 20 times. 15% per point ( max of 300% )

“Predator” would have to have some adjustment to GiTM. I know life steal is an easy way out for Fl4k’s survivability, but it would work even at a value as low as 3% with Fl4k’s dps.

These are my ideas for 2 VH’s, I would love to see some ideas for the others by those more well versed in what might help them. After all, some of us have a LOT of free time ATM.


This is very imaginative and fun sounding! I have to admit I don’t really agree with doing a 3-point capstone. But these ideas are cool for talent points in general. Especially the movement speed for Moze. God knows she needs that!

In terms of creating theoretical talent points, it would be really cool if Zane could activate his third action skill somehow. Maybe a capstone allows the drone to be deployed every time both the dome and the clone are deployed, or holding down one button swaps to the other action skills. I don’t know.

I don’t play Amara much, but considering how cool her actions skills are, they don’t seem to really do much other than phase grasp, so maybe a capstone could cause them to do something? Maybe the overkill from Amara’s last damage is transferred to phase cast? That would allow players to stack extreme levels of overkill and blast them at a single target. Since she can cast it twice, she could start building up these really cool burst damages where she didn’t shoot her gun unless she knew she’d get a good overkill. Might create a neat play style

The only reason I went with 3 points was to add a little more customization with a build. You might think one point is enough and spend the other 2 elsewhere.

After all it is just a theory right? Lol

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I enjoy the idea. Just depends on if you see the capstone in a tree as a kind of really powerful “reward” for getting everything you can in the tree, or simply more talents.

I like the ideas you put for sure.

I have had a lot of time on my hands lmao

Use a shield with movement speed on it as a passive. Can keep up with a full movement speed Zane when done right.

That’s a good idea. I’ve def used relics and shields to do so before. But you have to sacrifice a lot to get that. For example, you compared a Zane with talents to a Moze with gear. My thought with liking the suggestion is just that she definitely needs that as her own talents too. You’d think Rushan offensive would increase her movement speed overall too honestly. Shrug

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I think I would prefer a fourth skill tree for everyone :smiley:
Could five us new action skills and augments

As just for expanding the exiting ones?

Amara should get a cryo augment in the elemental tree and maybe some possibly to switch augments without opening the menue mid fight :frowning:

Moze should get increased sustain.
I don’t mind seeing them at the bottom of two trees that didn’t offer it yet

SoR: constant shield reg or shield steal on hit
BM: life steal or reg the longer she shoots/doesn’t reload
DW could finally offer the possibility to equip two grenade mods xD or give iron bear grenade launcher an augment to use her grenade mod :smiley: (or both muhaha)


Yeah but I’m afraid a fourth tree would spread us too thin on skill points unless they started giving us 2 per level.

I usually have to agree with your posts, but we might have to agree to disagree here lmao

The BM you mention is just the Sapper COM in a skill lol

I found that movement speed and damage were Moze’s weak points in my builds anyhow. I have seen people wreck with her tho

That’s quite the problem :v that it isn’t already :v

She doesn’t have speed, true. But speed as a cap stone is an equivalent to the wind dragon buff in league of legends: wweeeeeeeehh /^_^/

We all know what we want for the über FL4K experience: have all of his pets at once.

Imagine running around on solo with a full squad of wild beasts, each with their own specialty (and, of course, adjusted not to become too OP). THAT would be the ultimate Borderlands funtime.


You bring a valid point, movement speed isnt much of a capstone skill. But neither is a band-aid life steal in my case Fl4k or your Moze.

Poor character design IMO, why is Fl4k the only character with no life steal of any sort? True Vampyr has its issues but it is still life steal. Moze is the only VH with no movement speed in her skill tree.

They knew with BL2 and TPS endgame that it takes MASSIVE health regen to keep up with taken damage.

Well, if they did more than just 1 additional point in each tree, I could see a 5 or 3 points speed buff in the green tree :slight_smile: who wants it can get it

Fl4k got good life reg tho, no? As they are more seen as the hunter, stealth, standing behind their pets character, passively always being on full health. Since they got quite some damage boni for being on full HP

But for even 3 pets to be viable on M4, they need some HONKIN A** buffs lmao there is a lengthy thread on here for a pretty decent pet build. But it isnt easy and takes some SUPER specific gear


At level 57 we have about 55 points for perks. This means 2 cap stones with some to spare. If the level cap were to go to say 80 we’d get another 23 perks or so which is an enough that builds are no longer a thing and you just get everything that is god tier for that character. I think we’ll be fine without doubling points.

My health regen is 5.4%/sec with Fade Away with 3.2% of missing health for 3 seconds on kill. Say roughly 7%, that means it takes 7+ seconds to regenerate half of your health. 7 seconds to get back over healthgate, just to get oneshotted.

Not to mention getting targeted while “cloaked”

Fl4k has to rely too much on gear for survival

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I’ve been mulling over the idea of class role alterations. Something a little more tactical, each tree could be associated with 3 roles (tank, healer, dps). Instead of just mass slaughter have control point, escorts (meh but its valid) and activities breaking the group into 2 man teams for a bit. In any case don’t completely rule out new VH. There are no current plans, however…just watch the South Park episode where Cartman is given a million dollars.

I don’t expect level cap to go that high, at 80 you could hit all three caps.

What’s why a fourth skill tree would be cool :stuck_out_tongue:

If they just changed Turn Tail and Run to a low life steal percent. 3% with 3 points, that would cure his survival. The damage is there for him