Rakkstab. It was meta for Rakkstab before peregrine, back when Rakkstab was the undisputed best FL4K build in the game.
300/90 Ion Cannon, maybe.
Has the same problem as Moze’s class mod and that is it technically requires DLC 5 to make full use out of it, while requiring DLC 6 to obtain. There is likely that some players may only have DLC 6 but not 5.
What’s the point of Deja Vu being on there anyway?
They took what Deja Vu should have been and turned it into a class mod. Then they made Deja Vu a skill that gets boosted by said class mod. I don’t even know how to respond to this.
Yes, it’s almost like they got it confused with another skill. Any point in that is entirely wasted. Any of the other 6 skills in that tree related to crits would have been more suited.
Looks like pure boredom. Gimmicky in the worst way.
What am I supposed to do with that free grenade? Granted, Fl4k is the best grenade user in the game damage-wise but still I don’t get what’s the philosophy behind that red text.
God, could Gbx just re-hire the person responsible for the base game coms and skills of our neglected bot?
Purple tree was a desaster from a design pov and even more from a quality pov. The last coms were gimmicky, genuinely uninteresting or pointless, withe the peregrine being the odd exception for Rakk Stab builds that it.
In a way, you could say all the vault hunters got neglected in DLC6. From the footage I’ve seen so far, I think Gearbox truly screwed the pooch with Zane’s COM more than anyone else. The mag refill just comes from your reserve: it’s not free ammo. And then you have Deja Vu as one of the bonus skills… there’s no logic quite like Gearbox logic. It might not be exciting or original but I’ve seen with Fl4k’s new COM that you could easily restock on grenades far quicker than Moze ever could with Means of Destruction. Moze’s new class mod is not bad but it’s so unnecessarily niche that it gets outperformed by Flare which works with any hardpoint.
Amara definitely got the best class mod in DLC6, however its special effect is essentially a highly conditional double-kill skill. When you have at least two weak trash mobs to get it started then it’s great, but fight a boss with no adds to set up a kill for Remnant and it’s a waste of a class mod slot. I’d say in order of best to worst of the new class mods, it goes: Amara > Fl4k > Moze > Zane
It feels like they not only scrapped the bottom of the barrel with this class mods but the amount of effort put into zanes dlc6 class mod is disqualifying as a developer.
That definitely lessens the mod, but I mean it’s more or less dps since you just skip reload animation and just keep firing. Granted, need to kill with a crit. I assume would work with Clone and Mantis. Shame for the waste of skill put on it. Though you can easily restock with Fl4k’s, it’s not like you are in a position where you lack grenades. Moze got ripped off, I mean yea you nailed it. Just use Flare.
I’m trying to come up with something interesting, but as we know 95% of grenades are not powerful enough to be built around, and most of the remaining 5% are good for utility over raw damage. Perhaps one of the new grenades that came with DLC6? My knowledge fails me when it comes to grenades in BL3, honestly. But even if you can come up with something that works, it’s not a particularly interesting special effect so I will probably pass on it.
The Minesweeper always felt extremely boring to me. I always aim for Critical Hits anyway so the gameplay feels essentially identical on the usual Minesweeper gun builds. Powerful, but not one of my favorites. It does have great synergy with Tediore chucking or traditional Grenade builds though, which is awesome and unique.
I think this assertion is solid, but honestly it doesn’t resonate with me as much as it probably should. I don’t think playstyles need to be informed solely or mostly by the COM choice. To me, they’re just another piece of the puzzle that is making a build. Sure, my choice of Class Mod might not immediately inform you of what my build looks like but that doesn’t mean players can’t come up with just as many awesome synergistic and/or themed builds as in BL2. Combine a Nimbus with a solid elemental skill loadout and an Ember’s Purge, Cloud Kill, Doc Hina’s Miracle Bomb, etc. and you’ve got a pretty amazing AOE/area denial build that’s best served by using the Nimbus over other Class Mods. It’s certainly not the most powerful thing, but the core design is there in my opinion. Though your point about BL2 COMs still stands, I think. Limiting Class Mods to only +5 skill boosts total took a way those big pushes for specific builds that Class Mods gave in BL2. Legendary COMs feel a bit more “up in the air” in Borderlands 3. I have more to say but I’ll cut it short for everyone’s sake.
I might as well just make my own thread for Class Mod discussion at this point because I could talk about this for hours, even just to myself.
It’s not THAT bad as people will make you believe, but it’s very, very situational even with something like a Hunter-Seeker (FL4K’s best grenade).
The purple passives are fitting and as long as you’re keeping up your crits with something like Atomic Aroma, you can keep up grenades indefinitely (check Thiccfila’s video on it). You probably want this with either a skag since he will get into close quarters (so a standard gamma burst build) or the usual purple+blue+green Warloader build where FL4K can throw grenades all day everyday instead of shooting guns.
But yeah, situational. It’s basically an alternative for Rakk grenade builds that you instead can actually do now with gamma burst for long lasting encounters.
I would add a couple to that list
- Hustler Zane for crit/Eraser shenanigans with certain weapons like the Recursion
- Amara’s Spiritual Driver for going SANIC speed around the battlefield (still top tier after the nerf, don’t know why people don’t talk more about it)
- Amara’s new Death Blessings for gun damage builds (you need to let Remnant orb kill so you can get the buff and start rolling)
- Moze’s Rocketeer for AFK mode in your turret and Bloodletter with amp shots + Moxxi healing weapons/1HP builds/weird interactions like Spark Plug + Frozen Snowshoe (there may be more that I’m missing)
- FL4K’s new purple classmods, while low tier, allows for specific setups with certain gamma burst grenade builds
- Honorable mentions to Eternal Flame for maximum uptime on Iron Bear/Cub, since it’s a similar function to Seein’ Dead and even the Flare for one-shot setups.
I do understand where you’re coming from with some of the COMs being bad or redundant and I would like to see more niche, but interesting stuff (like a SNTL techspert build if Gearbox ever decides to give Techspert damage one of these days), but there are some mods that you actually have to give credit where credit is due.
@justern @Pool I’d be glad to discuss this and see what you guys (and others) have to say about BL3 COMs. Because I believe that way more of them are terrible than there should be. I do think the amount of points available on a COM are relevant to the discussion. Think about if Indiscriminate had a +3 COM to encourage a more Blurred Trickster kind of playstyle? Special effects also are relevant - think about how good the Friend-Bot would be if it did not have that terrible special effect?
Whoever designed COMs in BL3 did a mostly deficient job compared to past BL games. Even BL1’s COMs were better.
I actually looked through both BL2’s and BL3’s COMs last night. Almost all of the legendary COMs in BL2 had some use (even if niche; to be fair there were a few that are hot gobbage), and there are very justifiable use cases for blue and purple COMs over legendary ones in BL2 because it allows a build to be more focused.
The fact that only 5 points max can appear on a COM dictates that most purple COMs will not be very usable in “good” BL3 endgame builds on max difficulty, outside a very few exceptions. The whole benefit of using a blue or purple COM in BL2 or TPS was the focus of the COM with +6 and +5 - you could go all-in on that one really strong skill.
BL3 does not offer that option, strictly because of the number of points on the COMs. But also because the legendary COM special effects are mostly terrible and/or useless.
Moze gets even MORE damage for IB, while us pleb FL4Kers get a 40% chance at a grenade upon pet crit?
Am I missing something here? I’m not up to date with metas for FL4K, so perhaps theres a super OP grenade build I havent seen. But I dont know, that just seems pretty lackluster.
Guess I’ll stick to using Cosmic Stalker…
Yeah I was being a bit harsh (mostly expressing my disappointment in the place of grenades in Borderlands 3, which admittedly is probably not as bad as I think it is). The Atomic Aroma synergy you mentioned does actually seem pretty interesting; it looks like 3 out of our 4 playable characters now have access to incredibly powerful grenade regen. After reading the comments of the Thiccfila video you mentioned I’m optimistic I’ll be able to figure out a build I enjoy that uses the new COM.
No argument there. I think I have 18 characters at max level in BL3 and they all use different Class Mods, so it’s fair to say that there are a lot of COMs in the game I enjoy. Despite that, most of them are significantly flawed in some way. Either the special effect isn’t good enough (due to poor design or simply number balancing) or the bonus skill points it gives are poorly chosen. One of the comments I wrote but deleted in my previous reply was that BL3 had a lot fewer exceptional or “perfect” Class Mods than BL2. Like most things in BL3, Class Mods have a lot of untapped potential in my eyes.
gonna copy and paste my post from the fl4k section
I mean…Amara’s mod gives her 250% damage for half a minute for killing with her action skill, Zane’s refills his mag completely for killing with a critical hit.
…Fl4k gets one grenade when the pet, not the player themselves (which would actually be pretty cool, god forbid), scores a crit? Like, not even a full refill to his grenades (which frankly wouldn’t even be that useful given grenade ammo isn’t scarce)? I want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt they have good intentions, but then I’d have to seriously question their basic common sense.
also pretty done with pet or rakk based class mods at this point, we are experiencing a literal drought of those that actually help fl4k’s dps. We haven’t gotten any dps mods since the stackbot (which basically is riding off glitches an gimmicks), and its not like the pet/rakk mods we have gotten have made him competitive with iron bear/clone/m4ntis despite their ridiculous overabundance. It’d be way easier to give him a useful gun-based class mod, so let’s move on already.
since when did Fl4k become the grenade class anyway? Why is Gearbox so nervous to give the bot a decent gun class mod when there’s no chance he’s going to surpass Zane/Moze in that department? It isn’t 2019 anymore.
are the new mods in arm’s race, the raid boss or the eva stories?
The grenade regen isn’t even the problem, the pet hits tons of crits so it will top you off near instantly.
The issue is that a mayhem modifier, a grenade anoint, a GR perk, and Peregrine all exist already. If I wanted to do grenade stiff, I could use Peregrine and get IPS for more gun damage as well as grenade damage. Roll Reversal does give great pet damage due to increased crit, AC reset, and Monkey Do, but all those grenade you get won’t be dealing anywhere near the damage they would with Peregrine.
It’s a redundant COM with a boring effect. If the skills on this COM were on the cmdl3t instead, it would actually be a really cool COM.
I laughed so hard i almost sharted
Gearbox seems allergic to giving Fl4k an actual useful class mod. Almost every non-vanilla class mod just seems so overcomplicated and contrived, and adds almost nothing to gameplay. We’ve had 3 COMs trying to make pets useful (Trainer, Commandlet and Role Reversal) and all 3 are equally useless. What really boggles me is that GB keeps giving pets these weird perks instead of you know, just flat out giving a buff that directly benefits the pet.
Wouldn’t the Role Reversal be far better if it was ‘When Fl4k lands a critical hit, Fl4k’s pet gains bonus critical damage. This stacks up to x times’. Or the Commandlet have an additional effect that gives +100% Attack Command damage?
And the worst thing is all these so-called ‘pet COMS’ comes in expense of COMs that can help Fl4k’s other builds. Fl4k isn’t just a pet class - there still isn’t a dedicated Fade Away COM, and the only gun COM that has came out since base game is the St4ckbot - which is kinda a gimmick COM. And the end result of all these so-calle ‘pet’ COMS is that the DE4DEYE is still the best pet COM.
Any thoughts on Moze’ new com? I am having a hard time thinking where it would be better than her other coms?
Minigun based IB/IC? Make them more OP?