New Players, Start with Normal Mode first and not Advanced!

I have been seeing a lot of players below level 10 that are trying to do Advanced Story Missions right on the spot. They even try to do Heliophage when they get the chance since that is such a popular vote. Results?..Usually Failure and a waste of my time on the mission. A tip for the new players out there, it is best to NOT START PLAYING STORY MODE ON ADVANCED. Advanced requires more strategy and teamwork instead of blindly running into a bunch of enemies as Orendi and getting killed in less than 5 seconds. Please just start the game with Normal Mode so you can understand how each story mission works. This brings up 2 things I wish the game has in the future.

  1. (Advanced Heliophage should be a separate mission to choose from) You can choose Heliophage on Normal by itself so WHY NOT for Advanced as well? Heliophage is a long mission especially on Advanced and I am tired of having to see people pick that over and over again. Remove that mission from the Advanced Story Mode and make it as its own selection.

  2. (There should be a requirement before you can go into Advanced Story Mode) Solo or public I think that something reasonable would be…for example…“Command 20 to Access Advanced Story Mode” or “Beat the Whole Story Mode on Normal”…after you meet one of those requirements, you can then go into Advanced Story Mode. I know some people who just got the game might want to challenge themselves to start on Advanced, but this really drags the whole team down. I am tired of failing missions a lot of the time because people are not used to the game yet. Sure I can play by myself but that is not as much fun now is it?

I really hope one of the changes listed above will be in the game. What are your thoughts on this?

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No there shouldn’t be a requirement.

This morning we had a 5-man advanced run on Sentinel.

A level 5 Oscar Mike did MUcH better than the level 44 Miko. (Oscar was smart enough to not pull the Thrall rush at the beginning, Miko immediately jumped down and was pushing for shards)

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You’re using an exception versus a generality sadly.
You can see case where a level 5 Mike will shine in Advanced,but more often than not,>10 CR Players lack experience,the knowledge of the missions,the monsters,the characters,etc.
And it hinders the matchmaking in advanced.
I don’t think a requirement would solve anything,it would be either too quick/easy to be efficient or too long/annoying to be bearable for most,it’s a very hard balance to find imo.

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How about just requiring a player to finish normal mode before gaining access to advanced matchmaking.

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I set my own, personal goal to get gold medals on all missions in Normal before even setting foot in Advanced (and this was prior to the patch making gold medals easier). I’m not saying this should be a requirement, but doing so made sure that I knew the levels well enough, as well as their little nuances (Trox doesn’t always spawn on the left, for example). Perhaps having silvers in all normal missions?

And Heliophage should definitely have its own playlist. That mission is a whole 'nother ballgame.

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Pro Tip: Solo or group with friends instead of PUG queuing.

Unfortunately, the game scales the encounters based on number of active members.
Many times, grouping with randoms is a quick recipe for disaster.
That’s why Advanced matchmaking wasn’t a thing at launch.
The community demanded it enough, so they put it in.
Take this as an instance of getting what you asked for (not you specifically, the community).

  1. The only reason The Helipohage is sequestered for normal mode is because you have to clear the other 7 to open it. That being said, I wouldn’t mind it being on the regular Heliophage queue, just with a vote for Normal or Advanced.

  2. No, let people have choice. If anything, introduce a vote to kick option for players who have consumed 4+ lives. Make it pass on all 4 other players agreeing. Refund the lives lost by that member on a passing vote. Introduce a mechanic that allows a Mission Failure to consume 5(ish) lives to restart at the checkpoint (one life for each player).

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This actually was something I started thinking about after an Advanced Algorithm. My teammates were dying so much that I find myself most of the time reviving them. Once we got to Geoff, we got destroyed and mission failed. Unfortunately none of my friends were online playing Battleborn during that time and Solo isn’t really that fun since this game is more fun to play with other people. I suppose my 2nd idea can be ignored but I still think there should be a separate Advanced Heliophage Mission Choice.

Yep, there should be a level gate. Just because there are a couple low levels that can hang, doesn’t mean the majority can. It takes time not just to understand your character, it takes time to learn the map and understand the challenges. I don’t even run publics anymore because the matchmaking is so horrible and there’s always a level 3 in there trying to get carried. No thanks.

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I’ve had a few attempts at The Experiment, Saboteur, and Archive be ruined by players with no idea as to what they are doing.

And I still don’t want a level gate.
I say let the players choose for themselves.

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Actually I agree with progression.

What’s wrong with making players complete normal mode maps before having access to Advanced?

If GBX fixed it so people could choose which maps they played, then it would help people progress. It’s a fair and natural gaming experience, progressing through levels to further difficulties.

In some games like Final Fantasy and Elder Scrolls, going into high level dungeons without the requirements is death…wipe, no go.

Hell, I tried a Normal Sentinel this morning with a level 4,3,2,2 (I’m 100). They all got hammered after dropping down, absolutely useless. Not to say some gamers may be awesome from level 1, but I think it’s fair in this game to ask for a requirement to progress.

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Requirement should be getting GOLD in all story missions on Normal!!

Then they will also need to choose characters that they have mastered!

Only solution I will accept. v.v

There are Rank 100 players who haven’t yet got Gold on the Renegade.
For their sake I say no.

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You’re right, but if cocky people want to, they should be able to.
I don’t believe in making Advanced be available via high rank or gold medals: It doesn’t feel right to me.
I can handle Advanced, but if some people had their way, I can’t play it since I’m short one Gold medal.

Dude yuussss, why in the WORLD are some level 2 peoples all voting together to go heliophage?! Waste of my life! I have to quit out of the game so many times because they rush in like it’s Sparta smh get it together people

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Actually I didn’t say about Gold medals on all Normal. I’m still missing 2 as some are pretty hard to get. But the requirement to do all Normal missions first doesn’t take long, 4-5hours isn’t much to ask? I realise there is an argument in both PvE and PvP about low level players, but its the same in both. Some low level PvP players wipe the floor with max ranks.

I understand what your saying, and everyone will see this argument from different perspectives.

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How about some player-choice to be made: Let the player choose if he/she wants to go along on-CR-players or not. The CR-ceiling shouldn’t be too on-point with the CR, but something like “CR up to 20 under/above your CR”. Between these boundaries the players should be able to choose any softer cap, so CR 30-players could play with CR100-players, but could decide against the players below the bottom-ceiling and CR 50-players could decide to play with CR 1 but none higher than CR 70

I know you didn’t, someone else did. I just wanted to bring it up.
I do agree with you in that neophytes are ruining other’s experiences though.
It’s just hard to find a way to keep them out of advanced mode without making it hard for experienced players to play it as well.

Perfect. This is all I was going to say here.

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I don’t know. I’ve been playing story mode exclusively on XBox since launch and I’ve got just over 100 hours. In my experience, I’ve just had too many instances where I’ve looked at CR, looked at character selection, thought to myself ‘there is no way we are going to do this’, and then we went on to have some awesome, mission-winning, fun games anyway.

As for Heliophage, in the Xbox realm players are actually starting to get quite good at beating it on advanced. I used to dread it coming up but now it seems that, more often than not, the PUGs I’m joining are winning it. And, if they are low level players, they’ve probably wiped on that level many times and they are usually pretty amenable to me sharing the techniques I’ve learned over time on how to beat the level. And, again, some players with low CRs can be quite good.

I realize my goals are somewhat at odds with how others play story mode. Some people are just trying to farm legendaries and they want to maximize their chances in the time they play. I’m just focusing on PVE lore and leveling up character rank. Any amount of time spent in a match, win or lose, is advancing me towards my goals.

Broad reply, let’s refocus here.

What do we not like?
People who don’t know how to do the Story Mission.

When do we not like it?
All the time, but more so on Advanced because they should, like, really know better.

Why do we not like it?
Because of frequent Mission Failure states.

So when we boil it down, is it really the players we don’t like, or the end result?
Battleborn is notoriously bad at teaching players why certain Mission Failure states happen.
Battleborn is notoriously disconnected with the Mission Failure state in general.
How long did it take us to figure out how to beat The Saboteur on Normal?
To be honest, we complained about it enough that they changed it to make it easier!

What we really need to do, to both make the game more enjoyable to us, as well as to make a positive place for new players, is vocalize change to the Mission Failure state in Story Mode in general.

It makes sense that Boss Rush levels have a Life Pool that over consuming leads to Mission Failure (The Algorithm, The Sentinel, The Heliophage).
It does not make sense that objective guarding missions use a Life Pool.
Rather, there should be a Combined Continue System for these mission types (The Renegade, The Experiment, The Saboteur).
There are hybrid missions with both, those will probably require a hybrid solution as well (The Void’s Edge, The Archive).