NKLO (no kill like overkill) mechanics (WAY LESS COOL FOR MULTI PROJECTILES ON CARD WEAPONS)

Borderlands 2 Salvador the Gunzerker
#1

Adds up to 4 times NormalHit (sorry multiple projectiles on card weapons, uncle NKLO doesn’t love you as much ) damage per shot but for multi-projectile weapons the bonus per projectile is divided by the number of projectiles in a similar way damage from amp shields is.

Kill skill that adds Min (Overkill Damage, LvLScaledBaseWeaponDamage * (1 + sum additive gun damage) * (4 / # pellets on weapon card) ) to NormalHit weapon damage UNTIL refreshed with new value from new kill or expires in 7? seconds.

Multi-pellet weapons LOSE BIG HERE !! The card damage is damage per pellet (sorry shotguns) !!!

Weapons with non-listed projectiles (bee shield friends) also friends with NKLO

{obvious} When gunzerking it applies to both weapons. So if your slagging weapon is on level / you switch to a two damage weapons setup after slagging, BOTH weapons will ‘feel’ the NKLO juice. {obvious}

Easy to see for 1 pellet/bullet per shot weapons the maximum modified NormalHit damage is 5 * NormalHit // NormalHit + NormalHit * 4 / 1 = 5 * NormalHit

The higher the sum of additive gun damage term - the higher the amount of overkill AMP the gun can ‘carry’ … // the more ridiculous NKLO becomes (assuming your crit multiplier is high enough and you kill with crits (or MONESHOTs or crit moneyshots : :slight_smile: ) to generate the needed overkill amount. Slag (obviously) helps. As does money shot on the builds designed to exploit it)

Try to ALWAYS kill slagged targets if possible to maximize the overkill damage.

in-game tests


///  overkill bellow limit
# vsHealthorArmorMul 0.50; Intermediary Damage Value 44201.82031  
        203   343793.438 Max         0.000 Cur    20870.969 Prev    20870.969 Damage   520D1558 baseaddress     Larval Varkid vsHealthOrArmor 

15963.88184 - 14733.94043 = 1229.94141
44201.82031 * 0.5 -  20870.969 = 1229.941155 // ~ match


// overkill above limit


# Normal Hit = 13597.58887; using       Coach Gun; Scaled Base Gun Damage (CARD) = 11985.07617 ; Sum of Additive Gun Damage Multiplier    0.13454 (beware AMP SHIELD)  
# Damage Type = NON-ELEMENTAL ; ElementalMul = 1.00000; ( GrenadeMul = 1.12819 ); address =   4DE21C18 
# vsHealthorArmorMul 1.00; Intermediary Damage Value 236598.04688  
        250  1808391.500 Max         0.000 Cur   139872.281 Prev   139872.281 Damage   54CA8AD8 baseaddress      Adult Varkid vsHealthOrArmor 
# Normal Hit = 83581.47656; using           Droog; Scaled Base Gun Damage (CARD) = 14733.94043 ; Sum of Additive Gun Damage Multiplier    4.67272 (beware AMP SHIELD)  
# Normal Hit = 17781.46289; using       Coach Gun; Scaled Base Gun Damage (CARD) = 11985.07617 ; Sum of Additive Gun Damage Multiplier    0.48363 (beware AMP SHIELD)  
# Normal Hit = 17781.46289; using       Coach Gun; Scaled Base Gun Damage (CARD) = 11985.07617 ; Sum of Additive Gun Damage Multiplier    0.48363 (beware AMP SHIELD)  


236598.04688 - 139872.281 = 96725.76588 // overkill damage   hit the limit on the SR and on the shotgun

 14733.94043 * 1.13454 * (1 + 4/1) = 83581.2238  // BAM !!!)
 11985.07617 * 1.13454 * (1 + 4/13) = 17781.4093


// extra test increasing the additive damage bonus of the shotgun via renegade COM damage for pistols 
(also applies to the off hand weapon)
# Normal Hit = 24168.12500; using       Coach Gun; Scaled Base Gun Damage (CARD) = 11985.07617 ; Sum of Additive Gun Damage Multiplier    1.01652 (beware AMP SHIELD)  
# Normal Hit = 24168.12500; using       Coach Gun; Scaled Base Gun Damage (CARD) = 11985.07617 ; Sum of Additive Gun Damage Multiplier    1.01652 (beware AMP SHIELD)  

11985.07617 * (1 +0.54204) * (1 + 4/13) = 24168.0720
// ~13.5 gun damage BAR ~41 'pistol damage' renegade COM
4 Likes
#2

so NKLO can be seen an always on *5 damage on both weapons (1 projectile on card) when mobbing. Even higher on weapons with non-listed projectiles. For multi-projectiles on the weapon-card on the other hand, the increase is way less dramatic ( 5/ # number of projectiles on the weapon card) .

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#3

So… The bonus is divided by the number of pellets… But doesn’t that mean they also add up when they hit all at once ?

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#4

Two things:

  1. the bonus added is up to 4 * Card Damage (pellet) . ( But DAMAGE PER SHOT for shotguns is Card Damage * # Pellets so they get robbed here )
  2. that bonus (little for shotguns) is divided by number of pellets/projectiles. ( also if some projectiles miss some of the bonus is wasted)

If you look in the numerical example of the OP you can see the sniper maxed NKLO’s damage goes from 14733.94043 base on card to 83581.47656 (a factor of 5.67272 ) . 13 shot pellet shotgun 11985.07617 on card to 17781.46289 (1.48363).

SR’s total damage per shot went to almost 6 times card damage. SG-un didn’t even reach 50%.
Granted the SG’ damage per shot was much bigger to begin with ( 11985.07617 * 13 = 150k -> 17781.46289 * 13 = 231 k ) - but if one takes ROF/Reload times into account - their maxed NKLO damage becomes comparable. (the shotgun still money shots every 1 extra shot too … ). I think my droog level significantly lower (5 -6 levels) than shotgun in the test.

The question is there a weapon that does Jackobs level of damage per shot - with less / close to 1 pellet on card ? If there something like the luck cannon in borderlands 2 ?

Also unlisted projectiles extra cake : (not sure the most relevant search result) Guns the Bee makes perfect sense for
any of those guns make for good money shot weapon ?

EDIT: out of curiosity I calculated the max NKLO potential (without additive gun damage) of my current sal (lvl 59) weapons.

// lvl 58 green ‘filled bushwack’
(14000 + 14000 * 4/15 ) * 15 = 266000
// lvl 58 green ‘Fashionable Snider’ (maliwan - a far-cry from the rof on the droog, but v high chance to slag)
38000 * 5 = 190000

and another point. Multipellet guns typically have low damage per pellet. Which makes them BAD at generating HIGH NKLO overkill damage when killing without money shot / crits …

#5

So that’s a no for shotguns. But a go for sand hawk or DPUH… Right? Just like with the bee.

#6

Well , thus far we’ve failed to find a better replacement to shotguns for money shot abuse even as they can’t get that much from NKLO. (ROCKET LAUNCHERS …can’t money shot right ? )

On the DPUH - that x2 on the card hurts NKLO potential. The hard hitting or whatever you call it probably (haven’t done the math) can carry more NKLO bonus damage.

#7

Yes i see that part of the calculation, but the DPUH has a lot more than 2 pellets. It lists 2 but fires like 12.
How does it work for guns like that?

#8

I will need to ACTUALLY test this at some point, but until then , based on previous tests (done by other people :slight_smile: ) on similar (I would say same) mechanics :slight_smile:

Non Double penetrating has card damage D * E ( E > 1 , hard prefix damage bonus). You’ll get + D *E * 4 to the listed and same * the percent of the Normal hit damage the unlisted one do. ( not all the unlisted projectiles do 100% … some have like * 0.7 … don’t know the unkept harold’s by heart)

Now Double prefix add a x2 on card . BUT lowers card damage by ?..So D * F (but F is ~ 75% or so this time).
So max damage NKLO from D * F * 4 ( remember E > 1 ; F < 1). And same deal unlisted D * F * 4 * PercentForHaroldUnlisted …

So it probably ends up as more potential damage on the DPUH … but will it all land on the target ? And when it kills - because of the lowered damage per bullet - less NKLO boost for the next shots …

#9

Ow my head…

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#10

Ok, so the real issue isn’t that the damage is divided amongst the pellets (which makes sense)
It’s that NKLO uses the damage of a single pellet as its cap, not the damage of the whole shot.

Kinda like why Tediore reloads suck on shotguns.

Am I understanding this right ?

#11

same thing

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#12

We’ve been missing a maths guy here since Lootturtle and @Sljm are not around as much. Glad you’re here :slight_smile:

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#13

If I recall correctly, DPUH only loses around 15% (approximating here) damage from Hard with the same parts.

Using your math above, since I can’t confirm it myself. I don’t see any reason it would be inaccurate though.

1 * (1 + 4) * 7 = 35x
.85 * (1 + (4/2)) * 14 = 35.7x

If the calculation is as you say, that is close enough (and I approximated the base damage anyway), to say it’s a push. What would make or break it, then, is Money Shot frequency.

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#14

splash weapons don’t play nice with NKLO. When splash damage (~ 11 times lower than money shoted weapon impact , oh multiply with another 5 or 10 if high crit is involved so 55 to 110 times lower to money shot crit ) steals a kill it resets the NKLO bonus to that low overkill value … Again probably not really an issue for a heavy lifter like DPUH that kills just fine with little help from NKLO.

#15

Pretty sure the Splash on Harold gets Money Shot bonus, but it’s been a while. Not being able to Crit is a big deal.

I agree with your conclusion, NKLO alone isn’t something to worry about with all the other insane crap going on in Sal’s damage calculation. It’s free damage, and we’ll worth the point, but it’s not what you build around.

Only builds that should be concerned with this, are the ones that don’t get Money Shots to speak of, such as Hoarders. And even then, they have other, more compelling reasons to prefer non-double pistols and small-barrel shotguns.

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#16

Nope money shot will not boost splash. In tps one last thing is coded differently - it makes its way into the Normal Shot for a short while and during that time it will boost the splash of the previous shot :slight_smile: .

Even more counter synergy between NKLO and splash. Ironically NKLO DOES BOOST splash damage. So it increases chances for splash to steal kills . It just doesn’t increase it enough for it to be able to provide high NKLO bonus in return …

And the money shot deputy build is pretty much the best way / only to get high returns out of NKLO with high consistency. Otherwise the bonuses are extremely inconsistent and cannot be relied upon.

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