"No new vault hunter" w/ questionable logic

The statement has been made by Gearbox that there will be no more new playable vault hunters due to people electing to stick with one “main” vault hunter.

I think this statement exemplifies the saying “Can’t see the forest for the trees.” Its the logic behind the statement is questionable.

Lemme explain.

So, it seems like some of Borderlands biggest complaints (up there with menu lag and unoptimized loot drops) seems to be no skip-able cutscenes.

Not being able to skip cutscenes contributes to some players not wanting to have to play through the story again. It’s a hassle and takes a long time.

Especially when you are already required to play through it multiple times already what the the traditional Normal>True>Ultimate mode playthrough.

Is it any wonder that players stick with a singular character when they have already completed the story playthru(all cutscenes/dialogue with-standing) THREE seperate times?

Perhaps the issue is not people not wanting to play other vault hunters but the real issue is having to push through three play-throughs/per character? With no way to skip cutscenes/trivial missions this is a time consuming process.

Tldr: add skip-able cutscenes and other time saving features (skip trivial/starter missions, etc) and add new dlc vault hunters like we want.

Unless Gearbox is secretly drawing off our spiritual currency essence by draining our time and desire for fun; if that’s the case just get Hillary to suicide me and carry on.

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I have 3 level 50 VHs (Amara, Fl4K & Moze with Zane getting close) but I usually farm with Amara because of the overpopulation of anointed enemies in so much of the game. Her skills make it easier to crowd control them and take 'em out.

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Your logic is certainly questionable here.

So I’ll ask, were you in thgonna focus group meetings where they discussed more Vault Hunters?

No?

Okay. Cool. Nice set of assumptions about what they were thinking, then. Since you don’t actually have any data, just a set of assumptions.

I don’t particularly want new vault hunters. I’d rather they give new skill trees to the existing ones. I’d rather they focus on DLC as well. There are a host of performance issues that need fixing as well.

Either way, cheers and happy new year.

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They have stated the reason for no new VHs would be that their data says people pick one and stay with one.

I’m just curious if they cut the fat of that data.

What I mean is. In basic terms. If in 100 players. 4 players played multiple hunters…how many of the 96 were people who stopped playing before they reached level five? Did they cut out that number before making this decision? Because what if only four percent of players play another character, BUT 94 percent of people who beat the game play multiple characters? But. People who beat the game is only 8 percent of all “players”?

See what I mean? From a speculation stance, we don’t have the data they looked at. But we do have the words they said, which were “We looked at the numbers, and the majority of players stick with one character”.

That said, it was also said “we don’t have any better ideas to use for more characters. These were our best” so.

Do with that what you will.

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Exactly.

Is it questionable though? It’s really basic.

I certainly don’t claim to know what metrics they(Gbx) are looking at when drawing conclusions.

However, players not wanting to slog through the story three seperate times with no way to skip cutscenes or accelerate the story time is definitely going incentivize sticking to a single character.

The concept makes more sense if you have played previous title entries(BL1, BL2 & BL: Pre).

Say Borderlands had an endgame where you could simply do a quest to unlock a different vault hunter or unlock the ability to have different end game vault hunter skills. Do you think players would try more vault hunters out? I imagine if the huge time wall(of multiple play-throughs) wasn’t blocking the way, then yes, they likely would.

However, investing literally hours of playtime (of playing the same story over and over at that) just to be able to experience a different set of skills and endgame gameplay is not as fun(for most folks), tho is it?

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I was thinking something similar. I discussed it here: UVHM should be pick your mission mode, but the gist was: if there was a way to swap characters at endgame and play the missions you wanted or explore with them, rather than having to start again from scratch, most players would probably try all 4 VHs. If they released more, most players would probably play with them, too.
It’s having to complete the entire main story and progress up to level 40+ before you can experiment with a character and play mayhem modes with them, which puts a lot of people off.

As OP says, seems like gearbox have looked at the data and said “most people play one character so they must not like swapping” and not really looked into why they don’t like swapping or how to make swapping easier/more fun.
I have hit level 50 and finished the story with 2 characters and am working through it again with the other 2, but I’d love to be able to jump ahead and enjoy the endgame with those 2 as well, rather than having to switch back to my first 2.

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The issue is compounded by the fact that gearbox have stated that they’ll be releasing new content every month. For most players, they want to enjoy that content with characters at high levels and with good gear, so they stick with 1 or 2, rather than switching. Trying to get all 4 characters up and through all the new content constantly is going to put players off (especially casual players), whereas having a way to jump straight into the new content at endgame with any character would encourage most people to try them.

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It’s not basic logic you’re using but a premise derived from a manufactured pretense.

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I have lots of playtime in all the Borderlands games and I never played Roland or Mordecai in BL, spent 90% of my time on Axton or Maya, spent 90% of my time on Athena. Spending the vast majority of my time on Moze in this game but I have all four at 50. If there were more characters introduced I would max them out too but I would still spend the majority of my time with one character. I understand why they would rather put their efforts towards other things. The decision is logical to me.

You have a valid point with three playthoughs per character, that’s an incredibly mind-numbing experience and probably stops alot of folks from playing everybody to max. However, most folks are going to gravitate towards one character regardless if there’s 4 VH’s or 10.

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People stick to 1 character because of multiple reason , dont want to go thru multiple playthru , dont want to farm another set of item . But that really dont mean player aren’t enjoying dlc character , a lot of people max them out , playthru every mission with it . At the end , people stick to X character simply they like them better , not because other character unenjoyable

I think they are just finding excuse to not make dlc character

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I have 1 max lvl VH for each class, completely completed NVHM and TVHM for both Moze and Fl4k. (save for their NVHM run throughs of the Handsome Jackpot) (and holding off on Bekah, Lyuda, Vibrapulse unlock for Moze, Amara and Zane) currently working on sweeping up what’s left of Zaney boy’s NVHM playthrough, including the Handsome Jackpot, he’ll be my first NVHM playthrough of the dlc. And then once Zaney boy’s all caught up I imagine I’ll do the same for Amara. and then NVHM runs for the Jackpot with Fl4k and Moze. I’m still having fun with it all for now, but I imagine extra skill trees would be just as fun as extra VHs. Crew challenge restart is what I’m still hoping for.

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Here is the problem with your logic: cut-scenes that couldn’t be skipped in BL2 and the PreSequel were not the reason players didn’t buy Gaige, Kreig, Aurelia, and Handsome Jack. Do you know why?

Because they were hardly any cut-scenes to skip in those games. Non-skippable cut-scenes is a BL3 issue and has nothing to do with any data Gearbox has to support whether players purchased DLC characters for previous games…that didn’t have cut-scenes.

I get it, you want two things: skippable cut-scenes and more Vault Hunters. Attempting to make those two things related when they aren’t doesn’t help your case.

[ I have played through BL3 seven and half times now …skippable cut-scenes at this point are worthless to me]

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Check the Steam stats:

  • Less than 33% of BL2 owners on Steam finished the game (Defeat Jack Achievement)
  • Less than 18% of BL2 owners on Steam got to level 50 (Capped out for Now Achievement)
  • Less than 20% of BL2 owners on Steam even started the Tiny Tina Assault on Dragon Keep DLC (Slew Mister Boney Pants Guy Achievement)…the one DLC universally regarded as the best in the franchise.

Do you have any reason to think the console numbers are much different? If more than 80% of PC players never reached level 50 on any character, how many do think bought Gaige and Kreig? It is these kind of numbers (and I bet much more granular and accurate ones) that Gearbox has when they say the market for DLC characters isn’t there for the amount of work involved. The additional voice lines alone for each of the BL3 characters completely dwarfs the characters in BL2 and the TPS.

I’ll give you credit for attempting to make a valid argument. It’s a whole lot better than the person attempting to boycott their way into more BL3 Vault Hunters.

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In any case I d much rather that they use their time and ressources to correct the numerous bugs and problems of the existing material than to add additional VH.

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I have a sneaky suspicion/intuition that we are going to get Freddy and Embre as playable characters down the line. Just look at their attributes Freddy can control robots and Embre is a fire crazy arsonic, they would be totally viable skill sets.

At the end of the day GB wants to purlong the gameplay, I personally think their statements regarding extra VH’s is a mere misdirection/distraction

Who wouldn’t want to play them 2 characters, Freddy is funny and retro 1980’s and Embre with her sexy french accent alone is enough to make my mind up

Edit: sorry Warhawg that was meant for everyone not just you personally, slip of the finger

Perhaps but as they are NPC characters released in BL3 DLC after the events of the main game, we won’t get them as BL3 characters as it wouldn’t make sense to play them from the start when we don’t meet them at the start.

Also TPS is the only game that let us play former NPCs so far. Athena was introduced near the end of BL1’s Dlc lifecycle, Wilhelm and Nysha die in Bl2 at which time we still know very little about them (heck most players don’t even know Nisha exists in Bl2), and Claptrap was Jack’s property therefore easy to explain Jack reprogramming him. So for those reasons it was fairly easy for them to repurpose those characters as Vault Hunters to further flesh out the rise of Handsome Jack in a BL2 prequel.

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Yeah makes sense what you’re saying alright, but I shall stay optimistic all the same :grin:

I enjoyed Nisha in TPS I loved her action skill, capstone if I remember correctly

I think a big reason they don’t want to push new Hunters is that, with multiple action skills already, they’re having enough of a time balancing who they’ve already got.

There can be a massive amount of variety between two builds of the same hunter already, so I think spending development time promoting that variety is a more effective use than starting from scratch on someone new.

While I’d love more hunters, I can understand wanting to keep those resources focused on fixing and changing what they have already.

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that’s definitely true - but i went and did amara and fl4k to level 50 and zane to 20 something anyway. i’m playing zane through the DLC, waiting for a level cap rise. if there are no new playable characters i doubt very much i’ll be putting thousands of hours into BL3 like i did w/ the earlier ones.

Ya i hate that they are not going to add 2 new vh’s .Just another thing bl3 did that made me disslike it more.gaige was my fav bl2 ch.
But thin agin most of the logic in bl3 is highly questionable.