Not so True Vault Hunter Mode!


First of it all, the reason why i called this topic not so TVHM is cause what’s the point of it anyways.
I just found out that the elemental matching is gone since Mayhem 2.0 update.

I mean Gearbox in all honesty give us a reason to even play it.
Whats the point in that mode if i can reset the story anyways.

Things that would spice this up is:

  • Elemental Matching (why the hell do you take that out)
  • New TVHM specific Enemies
  • Secret Bosses (Vermi im looking at you)
  • TVHM specific loot

We can expand on this list together but that’s not my point here even tho im interested in that.
My point is how can this be a thing. This is no addition to the game it’s just a bland joke in some way.
Im doing this post because i think there should be something done about it.

At least we should speak up about this!


They probably didn’t focus on TVHM as much because (looking at shift data), they decided that given the amount of people who never go past their first playthrough, there wouldn’t be a reason to spend too many resources on it.

Although (just like with DLC characters), I kinda think that they sabotaged replayability in this way.

As I’ve said before, I’d have rather seen a mixture of what they did in BL2 (“secret bosses”, elemental matching and most importantly new enemies, with reskins for ALL creatures) and TPS (the different narration by Tiny Tina: for example, TVHM could’ve been the retelling of BL3’s story by Ava to some new character, that only appears in TVHM).


I’m sad the game isnt interested in new game+. Not only does TVHM serve little to no purpose, the story is too slow/long (and lackluster imo) to even enjoy doing a TVHM run. A shorter story and significant TVHM difference would’ve done wonders for replayability.

that’s why I’m ““thankful”” TVHM isnt required for endgame. It feels like an afterthought.


Wait, what?

When using mayhem there is no difference between normal or tvhm in elemental matching at least.

ShadowEvil actually covered it if you are interested.

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Okay, I already knew that. (Pretty sure Mayhem 1.0 worked like that too; it has nothing to do with 2.0) It sounded like you were saying Mayhem 2.0 broke the element system or something.

Nah i wasn’t clear about that I’m sorry.

That being said tho its quite interesting that basically with mayhem there is no actual difference between these two modes.

So much wasted time playing tvhm.

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It would make sense to have it available from the get go with any new VH´s then it would refer as the hard mode.

It would’ve been dope if after completing tvhm you can just skip characters to the end of the story to level 50 and start tvhm with them since they said “data wise” people only use 1 character it would push more people to have multiple characters and play more.


I have always wondered why there was no reward for TVHM as well. Here is a thread with another linked in comments on a similar subject.

Correct, normal Mayhem has always been = TVHM Mayhem.

What if they made TVHM just have the added health/shield/armor of M6 or M4 or something but without the modifiers. Then you would have another difficulty to play that didn’t include these silly lava pools and immune to this and that. Item scaling wouldn’t be required, either if that’s how people wanted to play or people could mix it with some mayhem level on top of it if they want to.

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Would anyone prefer GBX to go back the way it was?

First play through xp would let you reach optimum level 30 or you could farm to about 36.

TVHM 50 - 55 or so

UVHM the rest of the way up to cap.

At least limiting the level of enemies and the exp given made you play through to level up.

Or do you guys prefer the run this way where you can level up to max just running main story quest without even touching side quests unless you want to?

I’d avoid TVHM and format my hard drive in protest if that was the case.

What exactly do you mean there? If you are referring to the fact that in Borderlands 2, TVHM made it more important to match your elements (shields becoming resistant to fire, for instance) that is still a thing in Borderlands 3:


So, as far as I can tell, nothing was taken out there.

TVHM as per GB " tougher enemies and better rewards"

BS on the rewards I have all VH’s on TVHM and I got way more legendaries on my NVHM mode playthroughs, one thing I hate is being lied too and misled. Wasted hours upon hours for no difference beside a few extra stingey badasses

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You’ve made me feel much better. I was beginning to think I was the only forum dweller who wanted this.

However, I wouldn’t like to take away the fun the end game players get from a Borderlands game. GBX give us a choice of Easy or Normal. They give us a choice of Cooperation or Coopetition. They give us the the choice of opting in or out of the current event. So why not include the choice of fast progression, to get to end game quickly or “classic” progression, continuing to gain skills through multiple playthroughs?

I believe that BL3 aimed to be like its predecessors for a significant part of its development but changed late on. Look at all the problems it has with sustaining end game - the small amount of bank space on release, the unpredictable loot pools of bosses, the ridiculous number of “legendaries” just thrown in to be collectibles and then the realization there was no way to make the game “hard” so Mayhem Mode was tacked on the side. If you’re going to have a “live service” game, it needs to be designed in from the beginning.

I don’t know why the move to end game happened. Perhaps research showed that you maintained a player base longer that way. Perhaps there were some thoughts of monetization in the long term. I don’t know how much of its player base it has lost from this approach. I do know my regular gaming partners have all stopped playing. I’m hanging in there, hoping something will change.

BL3’s TVHM isn’t even as challenging as PT2 in BL1. It’s certainly not the TVHM of BL2 or TPS. It’s just a “vestigial organ” left from a game that was going to be very different. Anything GBX does to it now will just feel as artificial as Mayhem Mode.

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I’d also like to mention that TVHM in Bl2 was kind of crappy anyways or at least became that way as soon as the level cap was raised beyond 50 and UVHM came out. It was really easy to end up overleveled (particularily when making the mistake of doing any sidequests) which mostly meant that you hardly ever found anything that was better than the gear you got and that you’d get absolutely wrecked as soon as you started UVHM because all of the sudden all of the enemies were scaled to your level but your gear was like 5 levels under.
Now in Borderlands 3 it’s in kind of an awkward spot because Mayhem Mode includes level scaling, new gear, additional difficulties and just everything you’d otherwise expect from a next playthrough. That means that the only point in TVHM is to replay the story at a higher level and with Mayhem Modifiers on.

You’re right and, somewhere in development, GBX recognized this. TVHM in BL3 levels up to the player and can then be reset for further playthroughs. UVHM would be unnecessary. It would be more like Playthrough 2.5 in BL1. If GBX had wanted to include a UVHM, then they could have adopted the same strategy as TPS. I don’t know how 2k Oz managed it but it was very hard to become overlevelled. Either solution could have overcome the problems you mention

The proposed changes to Mayhem 2 do, indeed, give you what you’d expect from a next playthrough. So why not just have a “next playthrough”? Of course, what is missing, is gaining skill points. For me, it was the constant improvement and progression that got me addicted to Borderlands back in 2010.

As I said in my previous post, I think the decision to move to end game was made relatively late in the development cycle. BL3’s end game was shoe-horned into a “classic” Borderlands structure. And it seems GBX are falling back on that structure to make end game work.