Observation on New Skill Trees

Is it me or is the theme of the new trees just “I’m you, but better!”?

Fl4k’s 4th tree is Moze’s Shield territory, but better shield buffs.
Amara’s 4th tree is Zane’s Cryo territory, but just better.
Moze’s 4th tree is Amara’s DoT territory, but (maybe) better and more specialized?
Zane’s 4th tree is Fl4k’s Crit territory, but better.

How do people feel about that? As a Fl4k player I’m a bit salty about Zane’s tree, not gonna lie. lol

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For sure, they even just copied the exact skills from other Vault Hunters, the run and gun skill is just like Moze’s pre patch.

Also I find them all pretty one sided FL4K’s & Zane’s trees are just crit, crit, crit, cooldown, crit, cooldown…

Also is it just me or are the Action skills not complementing their trees very well.

Amara’s skills seem to be everything the Brawl tree was missing to make it a real melee tree.

FL4Ks boosts the survival of the pets, which arguably is not really needed, even less so for the Loader (and Jabber) himself.

Zane’s are a choice between using your guns with the boosted crits vs. scoring crits with the shoulder cannon. To be true I hoped for more utility gimmicks like poisoning the enemies, confusing them etc. Having a action skill do exactly the same as what the skills boost is a little bit redundant if you ask me. Atleast from the descriptions it seems you are supposed to “snipe” with the cannon.

Moze’s skill tree is just more of what she already had, inate fire damage after x from her various other skills and variations of Iron Bear fuel etc. from her Demolition Woman tree. Also why no new weapons for the other 3 trees? Cryo-Shotguns anyone? Even the Iron Cub assault rifle is just a version of the Gatlings with fire augment…

Edit: I really can’t stress enough how perplexed I am that it doesn’t have new IB gun options especially since Iron Cub is also utilizing them.

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If Moze gets a COM for her new tree that works like Red F4ng does, and Cub draws all aggro, that would be bad ass though.

I think my primary issue is not that the trees are riffing off from the other Vault Hunters but that, with the exception of Zanes, they’re pretty niche. Fl4k’s and Moze’s are rough sells without being dedicated to pets/Iron Bear, and Amara’s is heavily AS/Melee focused and does very little for guns that Brawl doesn’t accomplish more reliably.

They’re not bad, but I don’t see myself putting money down on trees I can’t comfortably support gunplay on.

Moze will get a Red F4ng
Amara will get a Cold Warrior
Fl4k will get a Bloodletter
and Zane will get a Spiritual Driver
Bet.

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Isn’t that how a skill tree is supossed to work though? Like, I understand there are skills in each tree that can benefit builds that are made primarily in other trees, but ultimately, each tree is anchored in some type of playstyle, and the skills in it typically cater to that.

Ex: Of course you’d have to be pet focused to use blue and/or purple tree

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It’s funny because Zane’s Clone and Moze Iron Bear draws in good aggro without needs of augments or the likes. I can see Iron Cub doing the same.

I wouldn’t neccessarily agree it’s better (I mean… Megavore still reigns supreme and Leave No Trace is gonna be objectively better than De Ja Vu whilst serving the same purpose) but it is certainly good. I’d just say it specializes a bit differently.

Usually they’re not this focused around something not gunplay though. Even Action Skill focused trees tend to offer a good amount of boosts for how your guns function centered around using the AS.

And, again, I’m not saying this is bad or skill trees shouldn’t have themes behind them, just that in the context of spending additional money these are maybe too far from the primary and most functional method of combat to justify purchasing.

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Nah. Zane might get something akin to Fl4k’s R4kk P4k (basically have his canon chain between enemies), but a Spiritual Driver-like just wouldn’t make any sense on him and his new skilltree because he doesn’t benefit from elemental self-damage in the same way Amara does and he already gets damage for moving.

Agreed, Megavore is too good. Imagine if it was with the Bore like skill. Also, I would say Leave no Trace is the better skill because it doesn’t require killing the enemy with a crit.

Yea, that’s the first thing I thought on seeing the cannon - it needs a chain shot mode. Not really, since it can do pretty wild damage with a good build, but it would be pretty sweet

As of now, and as a strictly Fl4k-only player, I have to see how good/fun the new mode that comes alongside the trees is in order for me to decide if I’m purchasing or not.
I’m thoroughly disappointed with the “Designers Cut” so far.

What boring trees, I much more prefer those of Fl4k and Amara at least there are a bit of potential new gameplay. It s p2w trees for the 2 others

I don’t see using the new Zane tree. The cannon needs to be fired, vs. his other action skills being self-motivated. Getting more crit damage isn’t important, I’m killing things quite well, thank you. The only skill that’s interesting is Eraser (re-doing of Zer0’s B0re ) and it’s so deep in the tree I won’t climb down for it.

I can see that argument

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See, I’m the exact opposite. I’m most excited about Zane because the cannon has to be fired. In my opinion, Zanes other builds are just so boring because you don’t have to do anything yourself

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That’s the issue with Fl4k’s purple tree; it promotes AFK pet builds and doesn’t at all promote Fl4k’s gunplay.

Yea, im not too enthused with Flaks new tree either. I’m not a fan of AFK sort of builds

There is a whole lot of truth to that. On my 2nd playthrough of DLC4 I (as Zane) didn’t do any offensive stuff, just dodged while Clone&Drone killed everything, including bosses.
So yeah, this is a more player directed Zane class.