Old player need some cliff notes


  1. Is the Blue and Green tree still the meta?
  2. Mindsweeper/Blast Master are still best for the most damage and synergy with blue and green trees?
  3. Were there significant updates to Moze from June to September? I skimmed all the patch notes and it looks like the ones that stick to me are extra two DLCs and useless anointments are gone now. Some gun buffs and nerfs (the usual). But it looks like it’s still the old recipe?
  4. Did Sapper got buffed?
  5. New com is ok but not ground breaking?
  6. Visual noise is still a thing in this game? Or was there a setting added to reduce the visual noise?
  7. Should I even bother farming DLC3 or DLC4 has godlier stuff?
  8. Extra: is Kaoson still the best smg for Moze?

Lomg Story:
Bit of background: last time I played the game was end of May 2020. Due to a number of reasons I had to stop playing. This was at level cap 57 and I completed DLC2 and soloing Maliwan TD with Moze at M10.

Today I decided to play again but maybe not as serious as I used to be (just some life reasons that prevents me from spending a lot of time with this game sadly).

At level 57, I had mostly godly stuff: Kaoson, OPQ, I managed to hit lvl 65 in two games of Slaughtershaft M10. I forgot about Scraptrap Trashlantis. I remembered it after hitting 65. While DLC3 and DLC4 are downloading, I went to Athenas M10. My lvl 57 loadout is still doing ok again lvl 65 but not as quick as it used to be. When I got to Traunt, I farmed him 3 times, it took more than a minute or two to kill him (before I can kill him in seconds).


I have the red tree capstone and am part of the way into the blue and green trees. I usually swap between a bloodletter or mindsweeper. The mindsweeper COM is the best one for my build and the Kaoson is an excellent SMG for Moze. You’ll want a Hellwalker, too. It’s a beast. I do use a deathless artifact and an fully spec’d into TRL which makes great use of the 150/50 urad anointment on guns.

1 Like

It’s only been 3 months.

1 Like
  1. Yes. There’s a meta guide here: Guide to the Current Moze Meta - Mayhem 10 Edition
  2. Yes, but other class mods are also very good if you want to focus on Iron Bear. Rocketeer and Bear Trooper/Raging Bear work well on high Mayhem levels.
  3. Some abilities, like Fitsd, Short Fuse and Iron Bear scale with Mayhem levels. Most adjustments were to gear.
  4. No.
  5. It’s a bit redudant, but it’s powerful for bossing with Iron Bear.
  6. Not sure.
  7. DLC3 has some of Moze’s best weapons. Depends on what you want. See Top Gear guide: [Guide] Top Gear for Moze the Gunner (It’s a work in progress).
  8. No, Flipper from DLC3 is better (and arguably the best weapon for Moze).

See if you can get a faster kill with Iron Bear. If you don’t have the gear, Iron Bear can help you get it.


Thanks everyone. Is the While Action is Active fixed for Moze or still useless?

Still useless. The new action skill for the new skill tree (next dlc maybe) may be able to use it though, so don’t throw away weapons with that anoint.

1 Like

While the ASA anointments might work with Iron Cub, they’re still quite restricted in their activity in the sense that you have to have them in hand from the start of the action skill and can’t swap them out without losing the anointment. I imagine the one with +200% weapon damage while ASA is the more favourable one, yet the CH anointment in comparison is way more accessible.


I read the specs on Flipper. It looks like it’s better than Kaoson? Well newer is always shinier? Is still shinier even after DLC4?

How does it play with Mindsweeper vs BM? I’m about to start playing DLC3 with my lvl 65 Kaoson with a useless anoint lol.

The Flipper has two advantages over the Kaoson, the first being that it fires more pellets per second once it fully ramps up and the other being accuracy. The Kaoson used to be my go-to for Mind Sweeper builds, but the devs hit it with a pretty rough accuracy nerf a ways back; much more challenging to lay stickies on crit spots now.


Yeah, it’s still the best SMG for Moze after DLC4 (in every build).
It does more damage than the Kaoson, has better synergy with MoD and Mind Sweeper due to the number of pellets and comes in two elements, which is always nice. It’s not a long-range weapon like the Kaoson used to be, though.
Also, it has a great looking weapon skin!

1 Like

Which is why I kind of hate it. Perhaps I just need more time to reconcile myself with the fact that it is the CMT of SMGs.

1 Like

This was a sad day… I still use the kaoson, I know it’s not what it was and the flipper is much stronger at its current state but I’m stubborn and just keep trying.

1 Like

I got myself 10 flippers with useless anoint but the gun is still insanely strong. The best ones I got are Rad/Shock with CH anoint and Incen/Corr with 160% splash. It kills faster than my Kaoson x2 (with a bad anoint though). However the Kaoson still feels more fun to use at least for me. It’s still good at M10 though with my MS + blue/green tree build.

I’m at Bloodsun now and my loadout is two Flippers, 1 Light Show with 100% weapon dmg, and Kaoson. From time to time I use the Dueling Peashooter from Jakobs (this handgun is fun to use).

Also did they buff IB in M10? When I use autobear, he’s able to kill M10 enemies in dlc3.

1 Like

Yes, IB scales damage with mayhem level. So does Shortfuse and FiTSD. Look for a Miscreant if you like the light show. It’s dropped by the boss at the end of bloodsun canyon.


Kaoson is still my goto SMG aswell. I’m not a fan of the flipper either. It reminds me too much of the ol’ Ogre and kyb’s gameplay loop, hipfire pray ‘n’ spray.

1 Like

DLC3 has a pistol called the “beacon”.

which can come with an ASE +100%+ (120 or something, or 100? cant remember the exact number - something absurd) splash damage bonus annoint. Its literally a hellshock that does splash and comes with splash annoints.

Obscenely strong gun.

1 Like

It still works don’t get me wrong I love that gun, I don’t even mind the dmg and crit nerf, the accuracy reduction is what kills me, not because I can’t use it efficiently but because it’s a Dahl and that’s kind of the point of Dahl weapons in general… I still use it in my load out without question

1 Like

But I’m sorry to side track this thread currently the flipper and the beacon Both are current strong metas for moze I’m just not a Maliwan fan

And yes iron bear is buffed to all hell, be it iron bear or auto bear it’s a huge increase to dps and worth investing the points

1 Like