Launch as in launch in the air? Or dive and attack first?
Iām going to assume you mean the knock up.
Does that in some way invalidate what I said in my post?
Yes because you canāt do anything while knocked up and usually dead before you can fall down. Especially if he gets under you so you keep bouncing on top of him
Isic can LT till itās dash time which will also net a stun.
Iām sorry but in skilled matches rath just isnāt a match he is casual noob stomping friendly he has 0 finesse all force.
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The best counter for assassins is CC. Slows and stuns vaporize him like anyone else. Heās pretty squishy if heās not attacking.
You obviously arenāt going to be convinced by anything I say, nor I by anything you say. So we might as well discontinue this discussion.
Ah but, screw it! Lets debate! 
Usually. That is the key word right there. You are acting like his knock up always hits, when it doesnāt. His knock up doesnāt guarantee a kill. Does it make a kill far more likely? Definitely.
This is the same case with Pheobeās phasegate and slow, you have to actually hit them for it to work. People have also complained about her phasegate too, mind you.
A good Rath will take advantage of their knock up just as much as any other character will take advantage of their abilities. The best thing to do about Rath is to watch your radar and avoid him. Get him by surprise and burst attack him with your abilities. You said so yourself you were trying to fight him head on. That is a mistake. Toby vs Marquis is the same thing. Marquis has a slight advantage in the sniping department.
I have problems with Rath occasionally, but just as much difficulty with anyone who is so dead set on killing me. That is why Raths are so annoying, because they hunt you down with the intent to kill. Itās what I do as, Kleese, Miko, ISIC, and etc.
Raths (at least in my experience) are very surprised when you attack them with the same dedication. I make shutting down whoever the biggest threat on the enemy team is my priority one. Most my enemies donāt expect me to chase them half-way across the map. And yes, I do also focus on minions. I most the time get the highest minion count and kill count in my team.
Do you have problems facing him just as Pheobe or is it with all your main characters? You might just not be good against Rath. I know Iām not particularly good against Thorn or Mellka, no matter who Iām being.
If youāre playing Phoebe, you should barely fight without having something up your sleeve. You can True Strike backwards, Phasegate, silence, quick melee, your options virtually endless. He does hurt new players a lot though, and until Ranked Play is released, I wouldnāt mind a small damage nerf.
As a Rath myself, It is absurd to hear this argument coming from someone that plays as Phoebe,perhaps I am a bad player(This is my 1st time playing this type of game!!!),however;Half of our encounters wind up with Phoebe being victorious, she is undoubtedly a much faster attacker and Rath doesnāt just blindly attack thereās some aiming involved with him.He clearly doesnāt just fire away and demolish stuff and when he knocks an opponent in the air and uses dreadwind, a lot of heros can stop that and prevent It from happening to themselves or their teammates. Believe me He has to aim,if he didnāt Iād be 100% better. If anyone needs to be tuned down Itās Thorn.
I agree. Rath has to aim.
X-blade is a big part of Rathās kit and his only ranged tool.
Personally I run movement speed, skill damage, shield capacity on my Rath and I take every single X-blade upgrade offered (and there are a lot of them).
My crossblade will take about 20% hp off a squishy target because of this and it gets me a lot of my kills either by directly damaging enemies or slowing them to where I can get up to them in melee range and finish them off.
Deadwind is of course the reason why Rath players play Rath. And no, the bounce and trounce combo doesnāt require a lot of aiming. But that combo also isnāt enough to kill many heroes.
A lot of heroes will fly away or disable Rath and survive and try to flee. In which case a carefully aimed X-blade is the difference between a kill secured or a failed attempt. Thatās unlike many melee champions who just have to āpointā their kit in a general direction and not really aim.
Preach!!
I fought an El dragon last night using Milka and I had 0 strategy on how to stop him. The range on that stupid clap was almost the same optimum range of her gun. Everytime he came close to dyingā¦BAM, freakazoid fly away. Heals up comes back, rinse and repeat. Except when he comes back he comes back stronger. Every freaking kill not only improved his helix but he literally gets stronger with permanent stacks if he doesnāt die.
Yeah heās a monster.
I didnāt realize how much till last night.
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This has a lot of truth to it.
Rath has a low learning curve, and unless you know the very specific maneuvers to handle him, heās lethal. Noob-killer.
His knockup-head juggle is plain disorienting for inexperienced players. Youāre going along just fine, then youāre up in the air and dead before you know what happened. Thereās a very narrow window you have to break his momentum, and new players will be discouraged by that. I definitely was.
Crafty vets and serious PvPers have the instincts polished to look for him going for that big sword smash, or instantly get to the quick melee button when he starts winding up to spin. For players who mostly PvE, who wander into the bloodsoaked arenas of PvP for Lore or just to see whatās going on, running into a Rath is very dismaying. āSo THATāS what itās like over on this side of the fence, eh? Maybe I DONāT need Whiskey Foxtrotās Lore after all!ā
Right now, with how easy it is to āmasterā Rath in PvP (by that I mean itās very easy to get the hang of his most lethal trick, not how easy it is to get the actual title) and how difficult it is for an inexperienced player to counter that trick, I feel like heās a barrier to crossing PvE and PvP modes.
Heās not outright unfair, but he can be very frustrating. Some modification may be in order to keep him rewarding for true Rath devotees, but make him a bit more tricky to develop effective game with.
Note: I have not yet āsolvedā Rath. He still will put a thwomping on me from time-to-time, but I have escaped him and punished him somewhat frequently as well.
I main Reyna and Whiskey Foxtrot, so Rath is never a big deal for me since Iām usually far enough behind my team that Rath has to choose between me, or the other 4 members of my team.
As Reyna, my homing bolts (paired with my accuracy with the pistol) can kill distant players pretty quickly, especially if they are either melee, or newbies.
I spec Whiskey for sniping and wave clearing, WF can make tanks run away with a new shade of brown in their pants, so Rathis no big deal as long as you stay aware of your surroundings.
If the Rath doesnāt rage quit, he begins to focus on me and only save his ult for me. Still not a big deal, just watch your booty.
But really though. I donāt think Rath was meant to be the lawnmower character. Iām not asking for a nerf, but a rework would be nice.
Pheobe is amazing if you know how to use her, if not, sheās the worst character in the game. Her early game is awful, so if you can shut her down before she becomes a beast, itās no biggie.
CC is your friend when fighting Pheobe.
Yeah the key is to make him miss his splash/stun. So, what I do is always keep an eye on him and when I see his hands glowing blue that means that stun is coming and I try to dodge it. If he hits you with it youāre done though.
Didnāt see him too much in the tourney this weekend, but I ran him a few times. The carry is real with him. Heās just so strong. Key is keeping up level.
When I actually read his helix and saw he gets permanent buffs from killsā¦
Yea, thatās bananas.
No lie, his clothsline charge puts him at Caldarius level of escape.
Rath is easy mode compared to El Dragon.
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Crit multipliers are exactly the same for every character.
Iām Master of Rath, Deande and Oscar Mike, I assure you both of them can shred Rath.
I think Rath and ED are gonna be next up on the nerfblock. I did just comment about how they can be stopped elsewhere, but bottom line: when they get a head of steam up, they could go 5v1 and still win. There are characters that can take them out, but they canāt do so from behind the curve. An Oscar Mike or Deande, sure can drop them if theyāre at least a level lower or closer. But outside of that, they wonāt have the punch to finish the job before lifesteal comes back into play.
There is no problem with killing Rath. The problem is that he has a no-skill āI-winā combo which flies in the face of the design of pretty much every other character.
Spreading his utility and power away from knockup-silence/dreadwind would make the character far less obnoxious to play and play against.
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There was a similar post like this during the beta days. Someone was angry at rath and demanded nerfing, I told him rath is fine and does was he is suppose to - dispose of battleborn heros. If i find it, iāll link it.