Only 1 strategy in pvp?

Battleborn Battleborn General Discussion
#17

DUDE… more than once I’ve thought that the cover is in the wrong places in the maps-- it feels like it pigeon holes the defending team instead of giving them an advantage… it definitely feels like the map design is more for an FPS and more than a MOBA.

I think there are some hero balance issues, but I think more than anything it’s that there are some elements in the game that are causing cascading… I’ve seen people constantly cascade like crazy with Rath (who I think has some balance issues with the width of his basic attack) but I’ve also seen cascading with oscar mike, and even MIKO, who I don’t think are overpowered at all. The problem seems to be with the advantages given to the team that gets most aggressive first.

Your final point is DEFINITELY too true, towers are super weak. I understand towers in central locations being weaker, since it encourages teams to fight over their locations, like the speed one in front of each teams base, that’s a crucial one and plays a big role in getting advantages, but one that should be fought over, so weak isn’t bad there, bc it encourages turnovers… but in the bases there needs to be much stronger defenses, and it probably means the SENTRY needs to have a constantly firing turret and not a laser that only shoots occasionally and can be dodged. There needs to be a constant threat of damage to the invading players when none of their minions are present-- that’s standard MOBA right there, and I think thats what @RottenRatPelt was saying, right? … nobody should be able to tower dive without significant minion coverage with the exception of minion spawning heroes (Kleese), but even then that’s a temporary dive. The part that makes that tricky is that the sentries have shields that recharge meaning if you don’t do X amount of damage in one shot then you’ve done nothing to him. That’s a bit annoying, and it causes a problem with the traditional moba approach of “whittle away at the tower” bc recharging shields make small, paced attacks worthless… Maybe shields need to be removed from sentries and their health boosted in place of the shields?

Another thought occurs to me… the speed boost tower in front of each base can be part of the cascading too, since if the enemy team builds one in front of your base you are basically walking in quicksand, and their minions pour in at increased speed… maybe certain tower locations are actually causing cascading rather than helping? Or maybe the speed towers need to have one-sided effects (instead of speeding up allies AND slowing down enemies, just one or the other). Also, as I’ve said before, enemies being able to take over your towers, at least INSIDE your base is a huge cascading issue.

Maybe if the bases had more of a “castle” like approach in the level design, with crow lofts and the like, it would allow teams to fire at invaders from strategic location while having a bit more coverage and discourage enemies from building in front of a teams base without a significant amount of support…?

@supermathv2 I couldn’t agree more, the super minions shouldn’t spawn indefinitely, that’s always a recipe for cascading, but in a one lane game like BB, how often should they spawn? You can only take a sentry down once before winning, whereas in other mobas you can take one per lane down, giving you multiple opportunities for super minions, unlike BB… so how many times should they spawn in BB? Once? Once every 3 groups of minions? I’m down for a change there, just not sure what it should be, maybe a timer…

@Jythri I just want to reiterate, that I love your game, I’m not knocking it, I just want to see it get better and better so that we can all be playing it until we’re old and grey. Do you guys have a pulse to some/all of these types of issues and concerns from the player base? I trust that you guys do, you haven’t let me down yet… though I’ve had bad experiences with other developers I believed in too… those who shall not be named… B***E :(

@MentalMars do you know anything?

#18

We are watching everything right now. We have, and can still make changes to anything. As you might appreciate from the healthy debate on these forums, there are a lot of complexities and moving parts to making changes, so at first, we’re prioritizing hard breakages and only making incremental changes to mode balance and tweaking.

If we need to correct outcomes of modes, we can. We’ll go slow on this, however.

Another interesting question is whether it’s better to bring a new mode online that corrects the problems holistically, or to refactor a mode (or elements of a mode) that isn’t working well now.

Another ANOTHER interesting consideration is that we are a hybrid shooter/MOBA/otherstuff game. MOBAs typically have one map that everyone plays, and you micro-tune over time. Shooters have multiple maps and modes, and that’s important for the variety of those communities (even though they typically devolve to playing the 1-2 best modes/maps–I’m looking at you “Dust”).

We have both communities represented within our playerbase and on reviews. We take heat because we didn’t ship with enough MP maps. (3 more coming soon!) We also get strong encouragement to highly tune a few maps to premier competitive levels. We want to do both, and we’re going to try to.

But it’s never simple. :slight_smile:

9 Likes
#19

When should we expect to begin doing missions in the LLC Arcfleet and the Detritus Ring? Could you give us a sneak peek into their map themes?

#20

Oh man, I can’t wait to go there! Probably won’t be for months to come, though.

If you want a sneak peek at LLC, though, unlock the lore for ISIC, El Dragon, Marquis. The background images you unlock there are some really early rough visualizations of LLC Arcship interiors.

3 Likes
Let's talk dev feedback and future content UPDATED: 7/1/16
#21

Been in matches that we are down 50/100 but we change the tide and turn it around. if you are able to to communicate with your team try getting a choke point going

#22

Are you discussing the possibility of letting us change character during selection ? I think that s a really important part of how people communicate during team selection.
It happened to me a lot to end up in an unbalanced team and want to change.

#23

I can totally appreciate the complexities. I’d love to see some simple things change on the quicker side, but I’ll let you guys handle the balancing act! GL!

#24

I have no idea why people play Incursion. To me the real mode is meltdown. Incursion is basically the equivalent of ARAM and thus very limited in strategy. Meltdown feels like a real moba to me.

1 Like
#25

sometimes the team gets a little to overconfident and starts too pvp and you can focus on objectives and overcome them( coming from someone who mainly plays capture) but i agree mostly.

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#26

I had two matches today where the more aggressive team pushed on us early and took our sentry down to around 85-80. Then we blasted their team getting greedy on our sentry, and we proceeded to counter attack and start to control the map. We won in both cases despite them being the other team being the aggressors for the first 5-10 minutes.

1 Like
#27

That is an interesting question.
I’ve actually had the idea for a new game mode specifically you appease the moba crowd who wants a larger map with a slightly slower-paced gameplay.
Incursion XL:
the current incursion set-up up is pretty straight forward. Team1 base1> team1 base2> neutral> team2 base2> team2 base1.
This creates a good fast pace moba fps hybrid feel, might need a little fixing here and there to perfect it, but it does a good job of meshing the fast pace shooter feel with moba elements.
For incursion XL I’d recommend adding one more base for each team, increasing the number of neutral areas, and creating a secondary route/lane.
So it would look something like this:
Team1 base1>
Team1 base2(A) - Team1 base2(B) >
Neutral1(A) - Neutral1(B) >
Neutral2(A) - Neutral2(B) >
Neutral3(A) - Neutral3(B) >
Team2 base2(A) - team2 base2(B) >
Team2 base1
I understand that might look like a cluttered mess. So let me clarify.
After base1, it would fork and there would be two main lanes each with their own base2 and neutral areas attached to it and separate buildables and thralls. The timelimit would probably have to be a bit longer on this type of game mode as well. In this game mode I think there would be more buildables than in standard incursion (which would promote players truly building up their bases and fortifying neutral areas) I also think that each teams base1 and both base2’s would be very heavily fortified with buildables pre-built (this would make diving in the beginning of the game far more difficult)

Anyway. That’s just my take on it. Incursion is an awesome game mode that is essential to a very fast paced moba. I believe it is what Battleborn was intended to achieve granted it does need a little finetuning. But with so many MOBA fans I think something like Incursion XL could really be a game changer for a lot of people.

2 Likes
#28

I LIKE it! NOICE. But I also think something as small as removing the ability to create your own buildable in an enemy teams destroyed buildable would change the outcome of the cascading significantly… It’s a really small change, but it could have a great big outcome… That and either adding more Premade buildables to bases or making the sentry stronger… Those 2 changes could fix incursion imo, but I like the way u think

#29

See this https://www.facebook.com/aeolusia/posts/1131020636937486

All of my team member had been struggled until 3 minutes left. We were killed again and again and agian. And one of my team tried to called for surrender vote but no one answered that call.

We were almost defeated. Me (Deande) , Ambra and Orendi tried our heart out to defend the last Sentry while other 2 members OScar Mike and Mellka sneak to take down enemy Sentry. And then we all counter attack and won.

1 Like
#30

The problem isn’t with Incursion but the players who just rush and focus on kills over the objective. There are a lot of different strategies you can employ on Incursion with the right team compositiom and communication. People who just think they have to push mid and slay enemies never win against organised teams, because there are counter-strategies to deal with the basic kill to win mentality.

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#31

I prefer meltdown.

Every game of incursion I’ve played, we’ve gotten steamrolled. It doesn’t help that I end up with team mates below level 10 against level 40s and 50s.

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#32

Maybe another issue for me is that I am usually only playing with one other player I know. And I have no interest in chatting with potty mouth randoms… but it means the communication and teamwork are missing. I need to fill our roster and that way we can work together… it makes a big difference I know, but I was almost always able to work well with randoms in other mobas (I know BB isn’t a straight moba) without even speaking to them, because most MOBAs have the same basix… this feels entirely different. I just feel like incursion needs to be more in line with a traditional moba and less of a shooter… i feel like capture is the traditional shooter gametype, and meltdown reminds me of arena mode in smite so thats moba but somewhat more of a deathmatch which again feels more shooter… incursion needs to become the more traditional MOBA type game with prevention measures against cascading and stronger sentries/towers.

#33

Yes, this is something we would like to improve. It requires a re-working of character select, so it may be some time before this gets to you, though.

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Let's talk dev feedback and future content UPDATED: 7/1/16
#34

I typically play with randoms.

#35

I’ve come back several times but it’s next to impossible on Echelon. I think that one should be tweaked. Once your opponents take the front sentry and set up shop then that first corridor becomes a shooting gallery as you try to protect the last one.

1 Like
#36

Yeah a lot of people hate it for that reason