OP mode - considerations for this type of mode going forward

I liked the idea of OP mode but I think I would have wanted to see a change.

edit: What would you guys change about the OP system?

Forgive me if I’m wrong though, but let’s say I unlock OP4 and then go back to play in OP0 mode. While in OP0 mode all drops will at best be level 72. Or if I play in OP1 mode, the best items that could drop would be OP1.

What I would want is that if I’ve unlocked OPX, then no matter what OP level I’m playing at, I would like to see drops happen up to the OP level I’ve unlocked. Why? Because if I’m playing with OP4 gear in OP1 mode, for example, then most of the drops I see will be kinda pointless.

People talk about how cool it is that you can scale your difficulty down using the gear obtained from higher OP levels than what you’re playing at, but then you don’t have a looting incentive anymore. Yes it is nice to get revenge on some tougher guys.

…side notes

I was a little surprised to see that OP mode didn’t make it to TPS.

Been watching the Expanse tv show. There is an organization in the show mentioned frequently that is called the OPA. Which I almost always hear as OP8. hah!

I don’t. If you want the big guns, you have to play with the big boys. The only thing I would change about the OP loot system is get rid of white and green drops.

I’m not. There just isn’t enough content in TPS to justify buying it. That and GBX has already said all of the DLCs would be released by last October. Now if there was new content added to TPS, I could see the OP modes being implemented, but that’s a subject for another thread.

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So farm at the level of the gear you want to use. Then go back and play at at the level of the enemies you want to face. How could it be simpler?

I think you’re missing the point of the OP levels. This might be a long explanation. I hope I don’t get a text wall going here.

I agree with gulfwulf. Why should you be able to get, in an extreme case, OP8 weapons and gear for killing lvl 72 guys? Granted, I like the idea. I would love to be able to nuke Hyperious at lvl 72 with my OP8 Gaige and get an OP8 Norfleet. Or Scarlett for an OP8 Pimp or Sandhawk. But that would blow the balance of the game out of the water.

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Well put @Lompoc_Carl

I wasn’t sure how to sum it up properly. My explanation was very long, so I decided not to post it. I have @Matrixneo42 in my friends list on the Xbone. I was planning on hitting him up and just chatting verbally about it.

If I could score an OP8 interfacer by killing 72 vorac, I wouldn’t. I want to earn that weapon. The game is made to be hard, and the system as it is makes playing it worthwhile.

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But why would I go back to lower OP levels? Far less incentive. Might let you beat some quests or bosses easier but usually at the OP levels I’m all about getting awesome new gear.

Basically, it creates a paradox in my head. Sure I could go kill all the dudes with OP8 gear back on OP0. But why would I? When I can try to beat him in OP8 for his better drops. The option almost defeats itself to exist at all. Just talking about what goes on in my head when I consider playing OP mode.

I do get that people use it as a balancer. They feel assault rifles are weak so they use higher OP level assault rifles and otherwise use OP gear that matches the OP level. Or they feel like the game is too hard in general at level 72, so they use OPX gear to make it easier for themselves. I am pretty sure you can even do cool stuff like beat a mission while in OP0, then go back into OP8 to turn it in for an OP8 level reward. Or farm crystals at OP0 so you can go back into OP8 to buy OP8 gear from Crazy Earl’s crystal based shop(s). I kind of forgot about that. That part kinda makes it worth it. :smirk:

It certainly is a cool feature. But it can be a little… odd.

The other change I would want is to put in some min/max boundaries when scaling gear to OP8 levels. Some of the turtle shields got scary weird for example.

I think they fixed that. I remember doing that for the Sandhawk farming. I think it remembers the level you accept the quest and that will be your level reward, regardless…IIRC

It’s been a while since I tried that. After finding @Chuck80 Deputy build for Sal, I no longer need those shenanigans. :slightly_smiling:

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So, you could go accept it at OP8. Run it while in OP0. Turn it in probably in OP8 to make sure. Or maybe even turn it in while in OP0 if it really remembers what level you accepted it at.

Or you can run through most of the game in OP0 to rush it if you were trying to get back to a certain part of the game.

But yeah, shenanigans aren’t always needed/useful/relevant.

What stuartathome said.

If you dont get this, I wonder why you play BL2. Why not just play everything OP8? Only a few bits of the game are really hard at OP8 with OP8 gear, and even those have been solod by every class. Ive wasted enough time on this pointless thread.

I actually do still do that. I actually load normal mode and run through WEP. Save/Quite and load back up in OP8 to farm the loot midgets. LOL so I still do a little shenanigans. :blush:

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[quote=“Matrixneo42, post:1, topic:1219486”]What would you guys change about the OP system?[/quote]I wouldn’t change anything, but I’m only in it for the combat.

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I would like to make sure that the skills of all characters all scale to the OP levels. While it’s great that Gearbox finally balanced skills of characters like Maya in the OP levels, it would have nice to have had them balanced from the start, so to speak…

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It’s kind of my point actually. That I’d rather play at the highest OP level for the best loot. The biggest function of OP levels for me is farming currencies, or clearing missions I’m having trouble with. I suppose I could also decide to farm level 72 stuff for an OP0 character using an OP8 character + OP8 Gear. And in that case, just knowing that I’m doing that so that my level 72 dude can enjoy some gear I might not otherwise be able to acquire.

I remember someone saying a while ago that they used the OP levels as a balancer for underpowered guns. (which means playing with higher OP gear in lower OP levels) And that is where my confusion came in. Hence, the thread. But as I’ve been discussing it with you guys I suppose there are some interesting uses of it and it’s nice that it’s optional. It was a nice way to expand the endgame without adding skillpoints.

But also I made the thread to suggest that we discuss things we would change to the OP system in general, if anything. It sounds like you don’t want to change it.

I personally feel like the game difficulty or at least Raid bosses were balanced to Sal with a Bee shield and a conference call or the unkempt harold. When it should have been balanced to probably Axton with some decent purple guns. Even if they had balanced the game to just Sal with a regular shield + some purple guns, his DPS is obscenely high. I think his is the highest DPS. Maybe it’s just that dual wielding will always be really strong. Maybe it’s the combo of everything else in Sal’s skill tree. Just a thought that has stirred around for a bit. So maybe Sal was too strong but either way the Raids are obnoxiously scaled and I feel the mechanics of the raid bosses often make certain classes obsolete to play solo against them.

I know that the concept is that you play it as a team. But in many cases I’d still say, class X will only hurt our chances in a given raid. The best example I can think of is the dragon raid in Tiny Tina’s DLC. Maya, Axton, Krieg, and Gaige all have action skills that tend to cause random damage. And against those dragons that’s dooming everyone. Krieg can be configured to try to avoid that. Those other 3 classes can tell the other players, “I won’t use my action skill until you tell me too” but it ends up being the case then that only Sal and Zero would be able to be as useful on a consistent basis. So we’ve gone from 6 classes to 2.5 classes and anyone else that joins either wont use their action skill very much (maya could use it only for as I suppose), or you say, only Sals or Zeros can join us for this raid.

In other raids you have Maya generally unable to phaselock anything over time, which reduces one of her best DPS options. And the bosses scale in difficulty for each player added. And many of the raids don’t let players re-enter the fight. Then you do manage to beat it and still have only a small chance at a legendary.

Just saying that in general I wish the Raid fights weren’t as biased. Also, digistruct peak is probably the most balanced raid in the game. But it’s hard to play it with randoms because you can’t matchmake specifically for it and you can’t see a tag in people’s games that says: “looking to fight in digistruct peak”. And the biggest problem I think is actually what makes it a raid, that upon death you can’t rejoin them. You can snipe and be slightly useful but not consistently enough to be worth you still being in the session.

I think it could have used occasional checkpoint zones that allowed you to spawn back in your fallen teammates and also players who joined mid-mission. But as it is today, the best way to play it is with 3 people on your friends list, with mics.

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But if you do that they are just normal bosses, not RAID bosses.

I’m in the opposite camp and I with the raids were really raid bosses and took more to beat. It would be nice to even have a path to get to them instead of just jump in and fight kinda like a digi peak with a raid at the end. But there are only really 2 of them that are almost true raids IMO, dragons and vora.

Raid bosses by design are made for a team of players to specialize and the ultimate challenge. If you make them where you can just pick up some purple gear and solo them with anyone, they are not raids at all.

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On more of the topic of the OP

  • I really hope we get them back, I think TPS not having OP levels really hurt it at least for me
  • I don’t like the idea of guns dropping above the level you set, you should be rewarded for playing op8, getting op8 gun in op0 seems like a bad idea for me, +/- 2 levels already makes people complain, raising that seems like a bad idea.
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I also would prefer raids to be more involved. More guys to fight. But then the bosses themselves a little less tough depending upon:
a) the respawn and rejoin the fight option, and how long that takes or if you can at all
b) where you respawn and what you have to go through
c) or even some sort of destiny style death timers or must be respawned by a player rule (or rather if you fully die and aren’t bleeding out, would you just sit there until another player can res you or would you respawn at the start, with or without a way to rejoin the fight?)

A longer fight with more dudes certainly makes Maya more functional, especially if some more enemies spawn at the final boss.

So maybe what I really want for raids in Borderlands are the equivalent of Strikes in Destiny. Sure I could go play Destiny but I much rather prefer Borderlands for a bunch of reasons. It’s just one of the things that Destiny did a little better, IMO. Too bad I still prefer the atmosphere, classes and style of Borderlands to that of Destiny.

And finally I think we come to a point of issue about solo content vs multiplayer content. Perhaps they do need some raids that require multiple players to even start. If that was the case then they’d still have to allow a solo player to play some version of the raid in solo, in which case it would take that into account in the design when balancing the difficulty.

Like if Pyro Pete was in this new style, you’d have to fight the bar patrons on the way to and some guys from the bar fight would join you during the fight with Pyro Pete. The map would likely change somewhat to have a bigger bar, and an outside fight too. Perhaps death in multiplayer would bring you back to outside the bar, and spawn more bar guys to fight past and slow you down before you could rejoin your buddies to take down Pete. If you tried to do this raid in solo, maybe it would be more similar to how the fight is now. It depends though.

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