First and foremost the story guys have gone on record saying they won’t of screen kill characters.
So Randy Varnell touched on some interesting stuff last time on the Borderlands Show. If you played BLTPS the an Observer warned Lilith about an impending war so she will need all the Vault Hunters she could get. The Observer wasn’t taking about the COV. Randy also said “The War is probably going to be big. Probably bigger then a DLC.”`
So long and short is more games are probably to come with more of the characters you know and love. I doubt they would just leave one of the two fan favorites on the cutting room floor never to be picked up.
Honestly, most of the male main cast are pretty capable and important to our victory, even if they are played for laughs more than the girls they are clearly good at what they do.
You could split hairs and point out how the girls are slightly more competent here and there- though given the criticism lobbed at Ava or Lilith’s competence I don’t really see how this is the case…but that really isn’t enough to claim some sort of ‘feminist agenda’ which people just throw around too freely these days. I mean, it’s not like every movie or game with greater number of male characters or have them in more useful/plot-important roles has a chauvinist agenda.
I realy looked forward to see BL2 VHs as an NPCs in this one, but seing how they butchered the ones that appear in main story, I don’t want to see that anymore. I’d rather have a good memory of what was, than get that bad taste in my mouth again.
tbh the only male character who doesn’t look like a bit of a buffoon is Typhon and even there he’s more the loveable rogue than anything else. But the other male leaders usually have far more capable female supports and the males just seem generally a bit incompetent and lost. Are there any incompetent women in the game? I can’t think of any off the top of my head. The most capable and competent characters are all female. And the song playing at the end is pretty much a girl power anthem to be fair.
Like I said I don’t have any problems with it as I play the game for the shootin’ and the lootin’ and whether my character is a typical male adventurer or a female makes zero difference to me. I also don’t have any issues with having women in charge and I’ve not been one of those criticising the story or the characters. But I’m also not blind and it seems plain as day that there’s a leftist agenda throughout the game, from the male/female dynamic already being discussed, to the fuss being made around having to use the correct pronouns for Fl4k, to the LGBT box-ticking. I think if it’s there we shouldn’t deny it.
I also don’t think it should be a big deal either way.
Zer0, Clay, Wainwright, Balex , Brick, Mord etc don’t look like buffoons. The only male leader I recall with a “more capable” sidekick is Lorelei to Rhys, but Lorelei…doesn’t really do anything and is clearly less capable and important to Rhys’ operations than Zer0. And Rhys’ skills and resourcefulness prove far useful in defeating Maliwan/COV than Lorelei’s fighting skills . Besides Genevieve and Aurelia who are written as extremely dislikeable, Eden- 6 is a sausage fest- Wainwright’s ‘more competent’ sidekick is Clay…a dude.
There’s a clear attempt at representation in this game, but in my view calling it a ‘leftist agenda’ or ‘feminist agenda’ on that alone is like calling your standard fiction as having a ‘rightwing’ or ‘chauvinist agenda’…and arguably, the majority of fiction one dismisses as without agenda are far more egregious about leaving out female characters than BL3 is about including them (ie Lord of the Rings).
You also have Vaughn’s sidekick’s echos where she describes him pretty much as an idiot and he’s played that way, too. The old VHs are kind of an exception as it would be odd to make them suddenly goofy. Rhys comes across as a bit of an idiot, tbh - resourceful? NOt convinced.
LOTRs is a film version of a book and in all honesty it gives greater female representation there than the books ever did. I don’t think that’s any kind of example of leaving out female characters. Quite the reverse
I agree that most fiction of this kind has stronger male than female representation. But the fact that there is such a strong effort to promote “alternatives” makes it an agenda. And that’s fine, but then don’t pretend there isn’t! That’s all I’m saying
Axton yes. Salvador no. Axton was a more interesting character to me. Salvador was funny in the dragon keep dlc but aside from that he got on my nerves and l didn’t like his character design.
well that was 6 weeks ago, conversation has moved on a lot since then.
But in all honesty there’s nothing misogynistic about the statement you’ve quoted. Acknowledging the existence of something isn’t being misogynistic about it. And indeed the whole post is anything but misogynistic - I think you’re either reading it wrong or being a bit reactionary
I’m not too optimistic about Axton’s return, since he’s been Going Commando.
Guns aren’t the only thing he can wield…
But who knows?
VaultHunter101
(So long, and thanks for all the fish)
#34
At face value, I sort of agree with you. But there’s been enough conspiracy theorizing in the other (now closed) threads on the whole ‘female power’ thing that it’s hard to take such statements at face value any more.
TL;DR - we are NOT revisiting that discussion as it’s been done to death, subject to necromancy, and reinterred multiple times.
Theories on Axton and/or Salvador based on story considerations are fine, however, so carry on with those.
Fair enough, I don’t want to open any can of worms, just felt like pointing out that people might be misreading things which in itself may lead the discussion down a rabbit hole.
But I respect what you’re saying and won’t pursue it any further!
So we can talk about Salvador and Axton as long as we don’t say what could be the obvious and primary agenda driven reason to not have them return?
That’s like discussing the many reasons zebras don’t want to go for a walk in the nice grassy fields. They can say it’s just not good weather, the grass is too dry, the ground is too soft, the zebras have a headache, the air smells funny blah blah blah as long as nobody says what clearly is the obvious and primary reason… they don’t wanna get eaten by lions.
Fine, Axton and Salvador were too strong, too cool, too funny, too fun to play. And nobody wants strong, fun, funny, cool characters in BL3…
VaultHunter101
(So long, and thanks for all the fish)
#37
To be clear, no one outside of the writing staff at GBX knows for sure whether there was or was not an ‘agenda’ at play. So no, we are not going to discuss a “primary agenda driven reason” that is nothing more than speculation presented as fact. And the reason for that is, every time the discussion goes down that rabbit hole, the trolls come out and things degenerate into petty bickering and name-calling. If you wish to discuss this further, please do so via PM.
You can discuss - as indicated by the thread title - what you think about Axton, Sal, etc. returning and how you think that could happen given the storyline so far.
I would love to talk to the Gearbox writers and personally discuss their agenda driven narratives in BL3. But I’m sure that’ll never happen.
The BL3 story game itself is the written facts. It’s in plain sight for all to see. Some just chose not to see it, or ignore it, other will strongly support it. There’s many that agree with me but they fear the mighty “ban hammer” and don’t want to get penalties, so they keep quite. Nothing more leftist than that. I just found right now many many other sites such as Reddit and many more saying the exact same thing I was way before I even posted anything on it. Many have said there’s a female driven agenda, other sites have said that " By borderlands 4 all the characters will be genderfluid pansexual". I just wish Borderlands would leave politics out of it but I guess that’s impossible now days. It makes sense though if you think about it, the writers of BL are now much older than they were when they wrote BL and BL2, now they’re into politics and old people stuff.
Trolling, bickering and name-calling is a normal thing in many other topics and it seems to be tolerated, but topics about a “hidden leftist feminist agenda” seems to be prohibited.
Fine I’ll discuss it as it will obviously go. Axton and Salvador will desperately need the help of Ava (the most annoying character in BL history), as well as every female character or else Axton, Salvador and every heterosexual male will curl into a ball in a corner and die. Yay, go flower power.
1 Like
VaultHunter101
(So long, and thanks for all the fish)
#39
The mods can’t personally vet every single post in every single thread. But we DO take action where warranted or where other forum users flag problematic posts.
Yeah, more trolling… don’t need that.
2 Likes
VaultHunter101
(So long, and thanks for all the fish)
closed
#40