Oscar Mike Versus the Battleschool

[quote=“Tenebeat, post:39, topic:1554470, full:true”]
2) it’s damn hard to get all ops points. Picked a slow character and fail to retrieve the first few points? Well, sucks.[/quote]

The first 4 ops points are actually really easy, even with a “slow” character. Only the first and third are timed and neither is a particularly tight timer; I’ve gotten all 4 of them on every single character I’ve played thus far (including Alani; I’ve only gotten through half of the characters thus far). The second can be easily gained by using the crate next to it as a stool.

The 4th simply requires you pay a bit of attention at the start: in the room with the hologram (right at the start) there’s 6 clone tanks on the walls (3 on each side), the leftmost one on the left hand side will contain a Mike in a specific pose (upside down, cross legged, tapping); remember the pose and, in the room after the corridor containing the third ops point (the one that sinks into the lava if you take too long), you’ll see a terminal in front of 3 canisters containing 3 different Mike, each in one of the previously mentioned poses; just use the terminal in front of the Mike that matches the pose of the Mike at the start.

The barrel killing is hard primarily because stray shots from enemies can set them off. It’s incredibly annoying, but, once you’ve gotten the hang of it (only attempt it against melee enemies; kill the ranged ones so they don’t detonate the barrels with stray shots), it’s not that bad (it sucks and is annoying as hell, but it’s no worse than any of the other challenges).

The worst challenge, imo, is the “Pop the Devourer’s Head” challenge which requires an extremely large amount of damage to be dealt to the thing’s crit location. I tried it on Benedict and the thing died before I popped its head (my guess is that it’s impossible with Bene because he can’t score crits and that’s what it checks). It doesn’t help that it occurs during the 2nd round when you have 2 side missions simultaneously.

One marginally nice thing about the mission design is that, because of the sheer number of chests you get from the side mission rewards after completing the arena round, you can easily hit level 10 before the completion of the mission, which can’t be said for Toby’s ops (when soloing the Thrall ops, I often only end up at level 8-9 before killing Aria and I’ll generally only hit 10 during the final boss fight).

Idk why but I often can’t reach the fourth point before it falls in the goo. I’ll try harder then.

Thanks for the tip with the tanks! I thought it wasn’t random, good to know what to look for now. I just got 100 points solo with Whiskey. I got lucky and had easy challenges though… not dying, kill 10 minions, melee kills and stuff like that.
Yeah, the “pop the devourers head” is annoying as hell. It really depends on the challenges you get… it could either be really easy like my last run or incredibly hard.

Do you solo the operation or team up? Like I said… playing this mission with randoms is especially awful.

Played it this morning. First thing I did when it was loaded was looking at the map, instantly had the feeling that it will be short. And annoyingly it lasts for half the time of Toby’s Raid.

It’s writing is very amusing though, and the return of Geoff, while making him more threatening was a really fun sight. Really hope that the last 2 Ops will be longer than this, but keep up the writing.

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I agree it was short. With a random player picked up from the queue, my friend and I knocked it out 100 points in 12 minutes, and I think if we had a third coordinating we could push it down even further.

I liked the idea behind a lot of the challenges, but I also think a lot of them are just unnecessarily finicky, like the Devourer’s Head, or too dangerous in certain combos. Like the barrel challenge in the thrall arena, my friend and I consistently had issues with the thralls being way harder than the other arenas, never mind doing fancy stuff like trying to get them to cooperate near barrels.

Which is another issue, that the arenas feel very inconsistent. We could easily shred through the minion or Varelsi ones, but the thrall arena was just absolute chaos with the brutes, melees and eventually bosses who seemed to spawn way earlier than the others. I dunno, maybe we just couldn’t get a right combo for the arena but we dread getting a thrall arena.

Other than that and a few other minor issues I’m probably forgetting, we overall enjoyed the DLC. The sentry boss randomizer is fun, and having some bosses come back felt better in this mission than the Heliophage.

We both loved the writing too. I feel like it was better than Toby’s, more inline with the Thrall Rebellion. Lots of great one liners, and generally just a good air of fun and silly that we love from Gearbox games.

It’ll likely be longer than most to fit in all that lore (I really hope)

I knew i should have made this video yesterday, but i really wanted to play some more Battleborn.
Here is a quick video guide showing the 4 hidden ops points

If you have a slow character and need to save time, you can double back to the first room and check the Mike position after collecting the three disappearing chests. I’ve gone back a couple of times in the same story op to double-check which Mike I needed, and there doesn’t seem to be any kind of timer beyond that for activating the wrong terminal.

Like most here, i thought it was short. I also didn’t find the humor as good as that in TFR (though, IMO, it is hard to raise the bar past Thaddeus’ dialog and manner of speaking), though i thought it better than that in ATR.

Haven’t played it past the first two times, because it feels kind of bland overall, and i’ve been playing mostly PVP.

Best part for me so far? Mini Geoffs.

HAHAHAHAHAAAA!! Spider.

Action packed is good. The last one was too much running around.

But its too short. The action is over way to quickly.

I appreciate the writing much more in this one.

It gets significantly more difficult than the other two as you keep on going. At 40 I was the only one in my team living and the others died quite a bit. To be fair, I did die once, but you try reviving two people as Mellka against three Ronin with no health gear

[quote=“epicender584, post:49, topic:1554470, full:true”]It gets significantly more difficult than the other two as you keep on going. At 40 I was the only one in my team living and the others died quite a bit. To be fair, I did die once, but you try reviving two people as Mellka against three Ronin with no health gear
[/quote]

Part of this comes from the environment and manner in which additional enemies appear.

The room itself is pretty small and compact compared to the environs that the ops have traditionally used which makes it easier to get swarmed by enemies. There aren’t any real bottlenecks to create good kill zones or dividers to allow you to break away from your enemies easily. Some of the configurations are also very open with no cover at all, which is extremely dangerous for large models and melee types.

Enemies continuously spawn from multiple locations throughout the entire round throughout the entire map (until you’ve killed so many that they stop spawning) such that there aren’t really any “safe” locations: you can’t just clear out X section and then keep your back to it, knowing that nothing is coming from there. You have to pay attention to your entire surroundings, not just the ones in front of you that you haven’t cleared yet. Much like in PvP, you can’t just dive in and expect to survive. You need to stay back and avoid overextending especially as a melee.

One advantage of this model of encounter design is that it makes the turrets extremely useful. Don’t be afraid to use them. They will save your life and make everything much easier.

Something else that will make life much easier: bring a free shard generator and design your loadout as if it were PvP. The ops mission is extremely stingy with shards, especially at the beginning, and you will want to spend shards on turrets to make things easier for you (especially if you get a “don’t die” side mission). While soloing, I’ll generally use a free shard gen and 2 legendaries, with enough spent on turrets and drones through the run that I’ll end the mission with 1k shards at most (if that).

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Dialogue was really funny but mission duration is too short,you can even finish this Operation in 7~8 minutes. so it is really great Command/Character Xp Grinding mission with Xp Boosts, only problem is it will grind your body too…

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I have mixed feelings about this DLC.

There are some areas that this thing gets it correct. Then it gets hampered by some very peculiar design choices.

Probably due to the feedback of DLC2, GBX deliberately designed a level where you don’t walk massive hallways with nothing to look for, artificially lengthening the DLC time by offering nothing of value. If I want to be doing nothing in a video game, at least make me not need to pay attention by not needing to press any buttons or keys on my keyboard.

As a result, the pacing of DLC3 is good, it’s constant action after the first round of the arena.

Another part that is good is the amount of gear that you could pick up. Apparently, the Henchman Boss can drop his legendary, so you can walk out with 2 Legendaries if you are really lucky. Of course, RNGesus will make sure your chances are slim.

3 different bosses for a bit of variation. This was probably done because due to the amount of characters in DLC2, like NegaToby, but all of the bosses are exactly the same. Surely NegaToby would be using something else entirely to fight instead of another identical mech.

No more OPs points hunting, probably because DLC2 really screwed the overall experience with massive hallways of nothing, obscenely wasting people’s times by forcing them to run around massive maps to look for them. If you haven’t noticed, I thought DLC2 was trash, and I will not hesitate to use any opportunity to stab it a few times if such occasions come to me -like now.

Of course, like all good things it must come to an end. Here are some of the bad things in DLC3.

As for time, I’m estimating the average time is 18 mins, and this is if you really screwed the 4th OPs point with the monitor. 18 mins is actually not a bad thing, to me, anyway, given that it means I have more time to redo them for more loot. The problem is that the DLCs challenges are extremely finicky and annoying that you’re forced to replay them more than you would like if you want 100 OPs, or just 85. So, in most cases, i have to put in over 30 mins to get what I want -given that I will abandon the group if they screw up the challenges in order for me to get the second skin.

Yes, I abandon groups and I could care less.

So the biggest problem of this DLC are the challenges themselves. With randoms, you can almost always kiss your 100 OPs goodbye, because the chances of them able to do the challenges properly are low. Anything to do with explosive crates are terrible; the 5 seconds between 2 boss level ronins; wounding enemies with Boombots; anything where you have to drastically alter your way to keep yourself alive is terrible. It probably sounded good on paper, but in actual practice it is not fun.

In exchange of a shorter mission, the trade-off is implementation of many very bad challenges that force their players to replay the mission more than they have to. Really, GBX, you can’t create a scenario where the process of farming isn’t too irritating or too long? The challenges are mostly alright in DLC1, but I didn’t think that they were too annoying (until you fix the detection of melee and skill damage on the challenges.) DLC3… half of them are a pain, and are just being agitating for the sake of being agitating.

These challenges, as a result, makes playing with randoms horrible. I’m one of those people that has no intention of playing with those that drastically decrease my chance of getting 100 OPs. In a way, it’s a battle school, only the qualified get to graduate. Again, it sounds good on paper, but upon execution it brings annoyance more often than fun.

Although a variety of bosses is good, the melee oriented sentry is probably the worst one. It’s simply a massive bullet sponge where it is artificially lengthening the mission due to how long it takes to kill it. None of the bosses released after DLC1 had nearly the same effect as Aria. None of her intrigue; none of her challenge; none of those moments where it actually got your heart pumping trying to cleave through everything as you evade her beam strikes. DLC3 was playing on the nostalgia, sure, but I expected an experience that was a bit more thrilling than what we got.

In terms of characters involvement, this was 75% Oscar Mike(s) and 25% Whiskey Foxtrot. With only 2 characters interacting with another, it doesn’t reveal enough between the existing 30 characters and the world of Solus. Solus still feels disjointed to the point where I cannot really picture an imaginative world with political intrigue and other strife that plagues it. DLC1 somewhat brought that feeling of involvement due to it taking place on Tempest, thus we got to see Jenerrit city designs, however DLC2 takes place on a ship (which makes it really hard to give a damn about the world) and DLC3 is in an indoor facility. The latter two makes it really difficult for me to summon any curiosity about it -especially with DLC2 where I just want to get to the end ASAP because of how boring it was, further discouraging me to give an actual crap about anything.

Maybe this is the nature of how Battleborn is played and designed that makes it immensely difficult to feel invested in the world. Each PvP map and PvE mission are merely interesting landmarks that fail to connect to the world that inhabits them. I’m not sure if this is something others share or I’m simply so blind and deaf and apathetic and unimaginative that I continuously fail to conjure images in my mind. Regardless, after DLC3, I’m not any more or less interested in Solus, I don’t see the aftermath and significance of defeating Rendain. We’re 3 DLCs in, and if this formula doesn’t work up my curiosity by this point, I can’t imagine myself anticipating the remaining 2 operations.

And this really dampens my expectations for DLC5.

At any rate, this DLC is much better than DLC2. I give it about a 7 to 7.5/10. DLC3 could have been better, a lot better, because now it seems to be playing catch up to all the pitfalls DLC2 created. If DLC2 released without any of the garbage ideas that made it boring instead of fun, maybe DLC3 would have taken advantage of the positive momentum and incorporated even better ideas to strengthen the final product. It’s still a good sign that DLC3 avoided all of DLC2’s issues like the plague, perhaps DLC4 would not incorporate challenges that annoy more than they entertain.

Ultimately, this was a good DLC (and I’m using the word ‘good’ loosely,) but in reality it needed to be great. I don’t see myself playing it more than I have to once I collect all the skins, but I’m nowhere near as adverse to it like DLC2.

I’ve also fought the supervisor, so that’s good as well

I think that was farther than usual already, so that’s nice

I don’t detest it in PVE unless it was a team comp dependent on you, then I find it a bit rude

This is very, very true. Things were looking up. If they could combine the decent objectives and boss style of 1, the hidden challenges of 2, and the more stagnant Ops Points and high gear rate of 3, it’d be perfect (ish)

DLC 5 is supposed to be the engaging lore bomb. Here’s to hoping

That was one of your more positive posts. Good to have you back

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It’s not that I don’t wish to post positive things, but my critical nature doesn’t allow me to, what’s the word, forgive things that don’t make my experience as enjoyable as it could have been.

DLC3 did take things towards a better direction, surely, yet, like I said, that was the job of DLC2.

And I’m also reading a few things Kitru is posting regarding the daily quests. I’m kind of glad that there are issues with the daily quests; it was wise for me not to place too much hope and faith in GBX to actually provide PvE exclusive players like myself the ability to play the PvE content and continue to be rewarded.

[quote=“Rivaire, post:52, topic:1554470, full:true”]
As a result, the pacing of DLC3 is good, it’s constant action after the first round of the arena.[/quote]

Personally, I find it more annoying to have to stand still and wait for dialogue to finish before I’m allowed to get stuff started again. I don’t mind empty corridors as much as I mind just standing still (especially since some of the side missions are timed; if you activate them before the dialogue finishes, the side mission will appear but enemies will not and then you’re screwed because you just cost yourself 20 seconds of a 45 sec time side mission doing nothing).

All of the cribbed bosses can drop their legendaries, which I’m not sure if it’s intentional or not. It’s still cool to fight them again, even if they’re significantly harder (especially since they spawn in the 2 side mission round, so you’re level 5ish and can also be saddled with the “don’t die” requirement).

[quote]
So the biggest problem of this DLC are the challenges themselves. With randoms, you can almost always kiss your 100 OPs goodbye, because the chances of them able to do the challenges properly are low. Anything to do with explosive crates are terrible; the 5 seconds between 2 boss level ronins; wounding enemies with Boombots; anything where you have to drastically alter your way to keep yourself alive is terrible. It probably sounded good on paper, but in actual practice it is not fun.[/quote]

I’ll agree here. The side missions are definitely more challenging in this ops than they have been previously, and many of them are extremely unwieldy and unfun.

The explosive crates can be triggered by stray shots from NPCs, which is extremely annoying. Also, enemies aren’t really nice enough to follow you and get close to them (especially ranged enemies) so you have to find the nice melee enemies and kite them towards the bottles while hoping that the ranged enemies don’t destroy them. I don’t mind this too much since you can predict where they’ll shoot reasonably decently and it’s just a matter of killing the ranged ones to make it easier.

The Boom bots one, on the other hand, I despise mainly because you don’t get to control when the Boom bots detonate. They run at you full speed, without stopping, and, as soon as you get close, they get ready to go off; if there aren’t any enemies near you, you just wasted one of a very limited resource since you only get like 6-7 Boom bots to spawn for that. What makes it even more annoying to me is that I only ever seem to get credit for 1 enemy wounded by the Boom bot even if 2-3 minions are killed by the explosion. The limited number of boom bots coupled with the unpredictable way in which the credit is counted makes it very annoying.

The other one that I really don’t like is the “Pop the Devourer’s Head”: first off, it’s not adequately explained (you just have to guess that it involves dealing a bunch of crit damage) and, secondly, it’s next to impossible for certain characters (melee characters are pretty difficult since the thing’s head it way up high; explosive characters like Bene, KU, and Ernest are annoying because they don’t crit at all so I’m not even sure it’s possible on them). At least with the “crit and then kill” side missions in Toby’s ops you could just QM their crit spot and finish them off.

The Twins and Hench side missions I don’t mind as much, though it does perturb me that they come in round 2, many times alongside the “don’t die” side mission. I would be much happier with these if the “don’t die” side mission at least triggered after a certain period of time or killing a certain number of enemies (possibly completing when the 2nd side mission appears), especially on squishier characters like Mellka.

Random aside, why can’t the “jump through hoops” side mission be in the higher levels too? It’s RNG and I never even got to experience the hilariousness of that.

[quote]
These challenges, as a result, makes playing with randoms horrible.[/quote]

I always think playing with randoms is horrible, but that’s me. I like to be able to know whether I need to carry someone or can actually trust them to accomplish something important. Maybe if the side missions were easier or more forgiving with a group I wouldn’t mind it as much but, personally, I find it easier to run solo.

I agree that the variety of bosses is good (I also like how they call back to the previous incarnations) but I disagree that the melee sentry is the worst. You can speed up the fight significantly by hitting it with a CC or forced movement skill and knocking it on its back, at which point its basically free crits. It’s the new Arachnis that I find to be a boring bullet sponge (though the addition of the spider bot adds is really cool).

I actually didn’t like the Aria fight. It was boring and only remotely difficult because of her instant death spears which were just straight up not fun, in my mind (especially if you’re a melee character because so much of that ops is anti-melee). At least with the sentries in this ops, you don’t just randomly die when a spear you didn’t see blows up your face. Also, Aria had way too many invincibility phases. The sentries have a few (and are kind of unpredictable with them, which makes me think that they’re a bit bugged), but they’re not as bad as Aria’s.

I think the writer would be a bit upset with you saying that there’s only 2 characters. I do agree that they went a bit over the top with all of the different Mikes and not enough to include the other Battleborn (I’m pretty sure that half of the Mikes could have been removed and replaced with interactions with other BB like Montana to change things up a bit).

Not sure I agree with you here. I do think that they went a bit too deep (yet still very shallow because the Mikes aren’t really that emotionally deep) with the Mikes (especially with so much other lore and other characters unexplored). I think that Toby’s ops did a good job of getting across the LLC feel.

Didn’t realize there were dialogue delays that affect timed challenges. Perhaps this could actually be patched so it functions as intended.

So based on what I’ve read… nearly all of them are terrible in their own way. Some of them are perhaps not even possible depending on who you picked to use. The twin ronins are actually a bitch, since 5 seconds, again, depending on who you are using, may not be enough. If you got the “Don’t Die” challenge, and then get the Ronins as your bonus, chances are you have 1 or even 2 turrets up. You suddenly lost the ability to control your damage output, drastically increasing your chance of miscalculating the time. With the “Don’t die” challenge also active, you’re pressed to simply kill everything in your path as soon as possible.

It sounds like it’s tense, full of adrenaline and hot blooded and stuff, but it’s only provides annoyance and frustration.

Randoms are not always horrible, but more often than not they are. I don’t enjoy soloing in this game, because the way it’s designed it’s overall not enjoyable. I only do it for the characters I need to get the skins with, and then I avoid soloing unless I have to.

The melee sentry has the most health of all of them, even if it’s down on its back the crit damage isn’t downing him much faster. I spend the most amount of time on him compared to the others. The other 2 I’m okay with, not too much to complain about.

Aria is by no means perfect, but I don’t find her fight boring -except too many invincibility phases. It’s not like I liked the one-shot mechanic she had, but the other attacks she had were effective at making me feel she was actually a competent opponent. The teleports, quick dashes, coming from the side or behind with a blade, I like how she plays like how I like to play to crush my opposition.

Unfortunately, I felt that DLC3 only had 2 characters interacting with another -the 2 that I actually gave a damn about. All the other Mikes, although different, all share the exact same Gung-Ho Dude-Bro Millitary Service is Great and Stuff. This aspect of the Mikes is too prevalent in every variant, so even though they are different characters, it just sounds like an Oscar Mike that is good at baking, or one that likes culture, yet embrace it with their dude-bro enthusiasm. It doesn’t feel like much of another character to me, and you can see this when they converse with Whiskey Foxtrot. Although the dialogue is good for the most part, the characters involved seem lazy, like half the cast was already finished before this DLC came to fruition.

As for the LLC feel in DLC2… I have no idea what you’re even talking about. I didn’t feel anything about understanding the LLC, or the Rogues, or how the operation made me give a damn about the world of Solus at large. This is further hampered by the fact that I was running in massive corridors of nothing half the time, desperate to slit my wrists to see some colour. The only thing that was memorable to me was Nega Toby, they should’ve did much more with him than whatever DLC2 was trying to convey.

What I want to know about the LLC are the Magna Carta, Great Severance, LLC Headquarters and the city and planet it is located in, what technologies they have, how they contributed so far to the war and aftermath, what are the other people like in the LLC that are not Battleborn, the marvel of their massive projects that hope reclaim territory to enhance their influence monetary or otherwise. All I got out of DLC2 is a couple of characters dealing with an issue in a location that doesn’t have much influence or effect in the long run. It also doesn’t help that most of it is just running around in big empty space.

I’m going to bed now, so do leave a post if you’re still awake. I will read it by tomorrow.

[quote=“Rivaire, post:56, topic:1554470, full:true”]What I want to know about the LLC are the Magna Carta, Great Severance, LLC Headquarters and the city and planet it is located in, what technologies they have, how they contributed so far to the war and aftermath, what are the other people like in the LLC that are not Battleborn, the marvel of their massive projects that hope reclaim territory to enhance their influence monetary or otherwise.
[/quote]

Well, first off, the LLC don’t have a planet. They have a massive fleet of ships comprised of different types of ships but a number of which are the “manufacturing ships” that the Toby’s ops took place on. Afaik, there isn’t a single headquarters because it’s not a really cohesive organization; it’s a massively powerful alliance of mercantile guilds and corporations sticking together to make as much money as possible. In this way, it’s rife with factions and power groups playing against one another.

If you read the lore challenges of the LLC characters, you get a pretty good feel for the non-BB population. It’s basically corporate life in space with lots of conspicuous consumption and extreme levels of marketing and entertainment programming to keep money flowing and people working (and probably in perpetual debt to the wealthy).

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…Very true.

The exploding barrels challenge is bugged and I’m not sure Gearbox realizes the code is smurfed.
Noticed when doing it with melee characters, if a minion bot causes the barrel to explode it will kill you with 1,900 dmg.

Timed OPs points can screw themselves.

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