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IIRC current VBC vs HBC ends in a draw (assuming no kitting done by the VBC) thanks to the factor that due to the longer VBC range this units always lands the first blow and the HBC cant reply back until a few moments later, the VBC is in range of the ion cannons

bottom line is, just make sure that after removing the extra range, a non micro managed encounter between a HBC and VBC ends in a draw

Maths don’t lie, but if you want go ahead and make your vids

in fact here is the test case i ran in both HW2 original disc verison, HW2C and HWR

  1. set a 1v1 match vs an easy computer
  2. build 6 bombers and 6 interceptors 3 torps and 3 marines
  3. when ready take out the CPU controlled SC fleet (he should only have a few SC), dont attack the enemy carrier
  4. Once the enemy fleet is decimated, send one marine to cap the carrier, measure the time it takes from the moment the marine latches, the result should be around 160 seconds, but if you send in the 3 marines notice it should be around 134 seconds
  5. by the time the carrier has been caputerd, the CPU player will be close to finish building a second carrier, repeat step 3
  6. now attack the enemy carrier and stop at approximately 50% damage (all ships set to passive “F2” and halt “S”)
  7. then send a marine to capture the damaged carrier and measure the time it takes from the moment the marine latches, the result should be around 36 seconds with a single marine, and around 30 seconds with 3 marines

where did i stated that HC should be damaged? i said that original HSI mechanic was to damage any units EXCEPT MS, SY, CC and BC. Since HC are HW1 equivalent to BC it becomes obvious that they not be damaged

There, fixed the original post as people cant get the HC=BC implication

BTW @AOHNH mind if we try your hypothesis on bug No. 4?

Yeah, I don’t really see anything wrong with capture speeds.
They just cap fast against targets being damaged, which is why you sometimes actually want to attack what you’re capping.
They also seem to be bugged and incapable of capturing motherships.

I think the bigger issue would be that capture ships are generally overly powerful when ahead, making it easier to get more ahead, but they’re rarely something you can use to put an underdog fight in your favor, or as some sort of counter, except when someone is silly enough to send an undefended carrier or destroyer right at you.

Do you mean latching issues?
The game will not allow mothership captures as long as the capturer has one, so I’m guessing that there is a unit cap of 1/1 for motherships regardless of low, default, high or huge cap game settings.

So you can capture the Pride of Hiigara, Vaygr Flagship, Kushan banana or the Taiidan toaster with marine/infiltrator frigates as long as your current mothership is destroyed.

I feel this should be changed to allow multiple motherships under one player’s control.

Didn’t mean by the ions hitting in that video. Try to disable some subsystem with hig BC ions and then keep shooting, it will not have such reduced damage like Vay BC, which makes me think it’s not at engine level.

lol… Are you suggesting that I’m posting a bug report when my queue doesn’t progress because I was out of RU then? Thank you for telling me how I can pause other queues so I can divert RU to another queue like I didn’t know that… This bug obviously never occurred to you and I can’t explain it better.

Why ask? Go ahead…

All the bugs/issues in the tracker have been tested and verified by at-least half a dozen people. Edit: I just did an elaborate post on #7

If any of the issues are unclear to the devs, we can make additional videos to demonstrate.

@Amsajuja, Scole has already confirmed there is an engine level bug causing certain ships to score more hits than they are supposed to. See this thread for details:

Good, we agree there. However, I think the issue is that HW2 hyperspace code is rather simple in this regard - damage every ship hitting inhibitor field unless such ship is capable of building anything. Defeat conditions are also based on that particular mechanic. Perhaps HC needs to be marked as a build-capable ship.

[quote=“amsajuja, post:62, topic:229710, full:true”]
BTW @AOHNH mind if we try your hypothesis on bug No. 4?[/quote]
Sure, we can try it any time.

I’m not sure why HWR devs implemented that cap. I think mothership-class units should be subject to (meaningful) capture, since we can’t pass a carrier around but we are able to capture it.

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Ya, hw2 races can lose their Mothership and Carrier, and still keep playing with a Battlecruiser. hw1 races will die if they only have a heavy cruiser left.

People often just try to snipe the hw1 players MS/CC, so they can take them out of the game - rather than trying to defeat their army with heavy cruisers in it.

This should definitely be addressed.

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Bigger issue is that you cannot pass any production ships and thus cannot save your dieing team mate by passing a carrier anymore. It’s rare to see a game do much better by surviving on a BC without a production ship.

While current config brings a new perspective to finish off 1 person’s MS/CC at the cost of your fleet, considering it broadens the amount of strategy available by allowing to pass MS/CC, I’d like to see the capital ship swapping back but I’m against letting BC/SY to be passed to team mate as it really makes the team so much better and it almost forces you to do so which limits how the game is played.

Nope they latch fine.

I played a game where I filled up the capture bar on a mothership and then they stayed latched and the bar went blank but the Mothership didn’t change sides.

It is a unit cap code - when you capture a MS it is actually disabled. The same happens when you are at unit cap for any ship - all ships you would normally capture are disabled for several minutes instead.

I verified this in a game where I captured several enemy CCs - the last couple didn’t switch sides as I already had 4.

im online from 2000 to 2400 CST, sent you a PM with my steam id

Yeah happened with me, i saw in one of my games that one of my HW2 enemys were still alive with only a BC alive, i though HW1 worked the same way, so in a match i got my MS destroyed, right after i got my carrier surrounded, i though i could keep on and end the fight since i had 2 HC ending up the enemy base and left my carrier to die, for my surprised when the enemy killed the carrier everything died togheter.

It might be related with the docking, since BCs can dock ships and HCs can’t.

This one sounds tough. 2 to 1 of the HW games has cc and MS/CS death = death. I wonder if it was intended that a BC, as a production ship, should live on when all else is dead.

As it stands now HW2 has 4 live on capable units compared to HW’s 2. The SY makes since, but the BC? I’m not one for taking things away from either game. But I also am on the fence about calling the HC a ship that can keep a fleet alive.

Can a BC build a SY?

BC cannot build anything. Not that it happens too often but allowing HC to keep the player alive sounds like a fair change.

BCs can build modules, which makes it a ‘production ship’.

This is why a BC keeps you in the game, and why they dont take damage when hyperspacing into a gravity well/hyp inhibitor.

Mothership. Shipyard. Carrier.

Those should be the only ‘Mothership class’ ships. They should also be the only ones you have to destroy to win.

The issue is the fundamental difference between HW2 and HW1 involving ship modules. The threshold for jump damage for HW2 is “can it build a hyperspace module” - if yes it takes no damage (CC,BC,SY and MS/FS). Applying this to HW1 is tricky. Either everything takes damage (no modules) or nothing does (internal built in hyperdrives). Currently it is balanced so CCs and MS are the only ships immune - HCs should also be immune to match BCs.

On the other note, a BC should not count as a production ship. I look to the Cataclysm model - only CCs and the MS could support a fleet, everything else cost support units. It is good logic to explain why Cruisers should not count as fleet command.

I would not mind a “Deathmatch” game option where you need to destroy every enemy capital ship (frigates+) to win, but people would just hide a frigate somewhere and drag games out.

It is tough to figure out what should be done honestly.

I’ve updated the tracker w/ a few new issues, and closed the resolved issues:

Obviously this is just a small slice of the multiplayer issues, as many more have been posted on this forum. Also, I’d add more balance issues but I’m sure the balance patch will address most of them.

You can always PM me if you have concerns.

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