Petition: Swap Means of Destruction with Vampyr - Poll

I propose we ask the devs to switch MoD with Vampyr. In the current state of the game Moze has two ways of healing:

  1. Moze can throw a grenade and heal with Vampyr.
  2. Moze can use a transfusion or Generator grenade.

The only issue is transfusion only works on red health bar damage and generator only works on shield health bar damage. There is currently no way to heal with a grenade effect on yellow armor damage.

This might be a bug or might be intentional, either way it leaves only one other way to actually heal, Vampyr. Currently Vampyr is a tier 4 skill. Which requires a minimum of 15 points to reach Vampyr.

Therefore I propose a swap. Move MoD with Vampyr. To compensate for the swap MoD should be buffed to:

9% ammo return chance per level
6% grenade return chance per level

This would max the skill at 3/3 with:

27% ammo
18% grenade

With a COM for an absolute max 6/3 would be:

54% ammo
36% grenade

Vampyr should stay as it is. Due to Vampyr scaling from missing health, the more health you receive the more the healing diminishes. Vampyr, Healing Grenades, and Shields - An In-depth Analysis

Having Vampyr as a tier 2 skill would allow more builds to make use of the occasional grenade toss to regen health or shields. This will also reward those that wish to have a more grenade heavy build at the cost of more investment in the skill tree.

As @sammantixbb said:

Looking for feedback and an open discussion.

  • Swap MoD with Vampyr
  • Keep skills placement as they are.

0 voters


Sorry if this is off-topic, but is it possible to to convince the devs to revisit Force Feedback? I think it should be an alternative for Moze to sustain herself, besides relying on Vampyr.


  • Whenever Moze scores a Critical Kill, her shields immediately begin recharging.


  • Whenever Moze scores a Critical, her shields immediately begin recharging at 50% effectiveness. This skill has a short cooldown.

It’s not a good solution, since it doesn’t factor in builds that have large shields. Anyways, I only bring up Force Feedback, because SOR/BM is my main build and I don’t use Vampyr. I think that the positions of those two skills are fine at the moment and buffing Force Feedback will encourage more build variety.

I would agree to that as one of my main five builds uses BM/SoR. Part of the issue with that skill is it turns off when you take damage. It also needs to be buffed, to account for the massive shields we can get.

If it’s on crit hit then 50% effectiveness is fine. It would be like Able for Axton. On crit kill it needs to be stronger like 150%. But for both cases any damage shouldn’t turn the skill off.

This skill is also made pointless with a Guardian Rank bonus.


Able is a better idea. I was originally thinking Quick Charge and Inertia. Agree on all accounts.

Crit kill, full shield

I’m not trying to make Gaige, you are


Then don’t pick it.

I think @sammantixbb was making a funny.

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Lol, I was saying we should have Crit Kill = Full Shield. Gaige is in my avatar picture on purpose. I loved BSS :joy:

Edit : Gaige is NOT in my avatar picture. My bad

With the buffs Moze can get that might be too powerful. I think Crit Kill giving 10%-20% of Max shield would be better.

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Oh, I see. Then, Whoosh. My apologies.

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S’all good. “I’m not crying, you’re crying” is old hat in internet time :joy:

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Speaking of old hat


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My moze can heal a few other ways then you have found so far. You can use transformer and aoe/lightning. Big boom blasters can be massive in healing potential and a lifesteal anointed will heal anyone. Unfortunately mozes design benefits shield over hybrid/life builds. So all the master blasters complain, but the 1hp deathless players go omg,omg,omg this is awesome.
Edit. For real fun a big boom or transformer with alchemist really gets healing going.

She is in mine and BSS is quite possibly my favorite skill in any Borderlands. As Blockade is probably my favorite shield and those two were such good friends

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I used to love BSS because it made my Razor Bomb Gaige build work. I’d kill an enemy, get my shield up, pounce to another enemy, they’d break my hide of Terra, I’d nova them then slice them…repeat

Both great ways to stay healed up, however every VH can use these items to achieve the same effects. Personally I’m going 1hp deathless with a Transformer and shock Tediore chucking.

However, the point here is a way for Moze to sustain health/shields through her skills like the rest of the VH’s have available to them. And to do so without diving all the way to Tier 4 in the DW tree if I’m understanding correctly.


Every other VH has a main Healing Skill in the second tier. Or earlier. Amara with Clarity, Zane with Salvation, Fl4k with…self repair?


This is not unique to Moze.


Yep i liked that build as well. Never did a true melee Gaige i guess because i specced into Unstoppable Force. I would rather just let the enemy break my shield everytime than not have the movement speed

Oh, I used Unstoppable with it too :joy: it was fun but a pain

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