Is that even in the plans?
It’s definitely easier without a full team. Regardless of the number of players, though, the opening section around the elevator punishes non-teams severely. You really need to stick together and not have any members rushing to beat everyone else to the shards. With a team that actually plays as a team, it’s a great deal of fun.
That part can be fun when people know not to rush and spawn in every single thing at the same time. Otherwise, yes, it’s a ridiculous difficulty jump right at the start of a mission. A Slaughter Dome. For the enemy or for the players? Roll a dice.
The level design in this game is often very weird and I really wonder what the idea in it was.
It’s like the people who designed the enemies attacks and the people who designed the levels were all out of sync. They might want to communicate a bit more in the future.
And don’t forget the fact that enemy spawns are total RNG. You might only get minion bots, one deadeye and a couple strikers at the start of The Algorithm. Or you might get bombarded by 8 Ronins at level 1. Have fun, good luck!
Just stick together so you don’t trigger all the spawns at once and pick of enemies from the perch before you drop down.
I could be alone in this, but it is for this exact reason that I don’t want them to nerf/change/reduce the difficulty of this portion of the mission.
I play on Xbox One and basically 99.9% of the time in pug’s.
I find the portion right before the elevator to be:
a) an excellent check of team synergy;
b) an excellent check (and important lesson for some people) of the importance of team composition (I.e. The need for a support class);
c) a good lesson as to why using a headset and mic is incredibly beneficial for this game; and,
d) fun! I love the difficulty of this portion, especially when a group synergies well.
I enjoy finding out within the first three minutes of a group is going to fail instead of waiting 20-30 minutes to find out that people are just going to burn through all of our lives on the traps section.
That’s just my opinion though. I can completely understand why others would want to see this part made a bit easier as it is a huge difficulty spike compared to everything else, but isn’t that what normal mode is for? And again, with proper team composition it really isn’t that bad. Usually right from the character select, you can immediately tell if you will be successful or not.
How many story mode pug’s do you find where anyone us using a mic at all? I’m also on XB1, and I usually plug my headset in, just in case, but I don’t think I’ve ever run into anyone else in random play that has a mic. It’s really frustrating when you’re with a bunch of obviously new players on a difficult map (Archive, Sentinel, Experiment) and they’re rushing everywhere while neglecting the things they need to do to not fail, but you can’t communicate with them.
You’re not. I happen to agree with all the points you made. The first part of The Sentinel is imho fine as is.
It’s just punishing players who don’t work as a team.
Not to mention, it is one of the easiest missions in general.
It can be difficult with a full team of randoms, but I think it’s mostly due to people going for the shards right away which causes enemies to spawn. Take it one group at a time and you’ll be fine.
I have to agree that the Thrall Fiesta at the beginning of The Sentinel is a good challenge, and doesn’t need fixed.
If you run in, you get cleaned out. I suppose the only thing I dislike about it, and this is minor, is that it dramatically favors ranged over melee. But it does present a new idea for melee guys: the fact that they’re going to need to use terrain to their advantage (lots of rock outcroppings and different ledges) and wait and bait the enemies into firing lines for their elevated allies. You can’t just go full-tilt-boogie aggressive on every guy as a melee player and expect to succeed.
Relative to the on-mic/off-mic discussion in this thread, the Sentinel is a really good one for teaching non-verbal communication among Battleborn teams. You need to watch what your allies are doing, and interpret the appropriate move. You need to mark points and objectives, and stick together. (The appropriate move, especially on Advanced is NEVER to think “well, they’re going to get this Shard cluster, I’ll go get that one!”)
If I’m an elevated shooter at Thrall Fiesta and I see my melee fighter drop down to engage, I know I need to offer fire support on the guys engaging him, rather than pick a different cluster that’s further off. If I have wave clear, or mass CC/Debuff, I need to use it when rushes comes to give the melee guys a chance and make the shooters’ tasks of picking them off easier. If I’m a bricky guy with a shield on the ground, like Boldur or Gal, I know I need to put that shield up and dart out to give the Thralls something to shoot at, then sink back, hopefully drawing them into fire from my allies.
Non-verbal communication is all over this map. You need to pay attention to your teammates in the corridors with the traps, so they don’t get pinched in alone with a Thrall Brute between hazards. You need to keep an eye out if anyone gets knocked into the pit under the sideways-piston room. You definitely need to know where people are and what they’re facing in the “intersection room,” the one with the crushers in a box arrangement and the blade pillars on the sides, right before Vyn.
Battleborn teamwork isn’t just talking over the mic.
While I totally agree with that, and do my best along those lines, there are times when no matter what you do it isn’t going to work. I usually stick those out to the bitter end (because it often comes mercifully quickly), but I’ve seen other players leave quite abruptly.
About the only thing I don’t agree with is the assessment of whether or not your team will fail based on the first part because everything else is cake. Save for that one person who simply cannot grasp the timing on the super simple traps.
Oh, and the NEED for support. Played plenty with no supports and with supports who don’t support. Life steal and other healh regen stuff makes support characters way less necessary.
I almost always play with randoms who never use Mics… So I guess I’m screwed lol
I don’t think that mission is that hard, just annoying mostly because of the trap corridors. I’m walking through traps and timing my steps carefully then a thrall appears out of nowhere (I played this mission like 7 times and they still surprise me) nudges me backwards which makes me hit a trap that knocks me all the way back to the start of the corridor all while hitting every trap that I passed. Now I’m at low health or possible dead. Atleast its funny seeing the thralls die by the traps as they try to get to me.
Absolute agree with everything here except the microphone thing.
I have had 5 man PUGs that just gelled.
All none verbal communication worked well.
But that was once.
Mostly, this is make or break for inexperienced players.
It’s good for them to learn not to run off, play together, support one another etc.
I say keep it the way it is.
I wouldn’t mind more like this.
Melee them before they melee you! Still tough when you don’t notice that red dot appear right behind you on the map though.
The beginning is totally fine and, in fact, pretty much a cakewalk if you play intelligently.
Many of the additional spawns are triggered by either destroying or approaching one of the big shards. Groups tend to wipe because idiot players decide that they’d rather rush the shards than kill the stuff that’s currently up and only then move on to the shards.
It’s also important to know where the spawns happen. A number of times, I’ve seen the group get wasted because everyone was facing towards one group of enemies when a teleport spike dropped behind and threw a wave of evolved and brutes at their exposed backsides.
The start of the sentinel is a lesson in making sure you don’t bite off more than you can chew. It would be nice if there were some hints about various behaviors triggering thrall spawns (e.g. “The thralls are angry you destroyed that shard! It looks like there are more incoming!”) so that players wouldn’t have to figure it out through trial and error, but that’s life.
When you’re running with new people, it’s important to make sure they know this. I’ve had pugs that honestly believed that everything spawned all at once so it was best to just rush the shards and hope for the best because that how they always did it. It never occurred to them that their rash behavior could be the reason that their failure rate was so high.
See, first time in it this mission was stupidly easy for me. It’s just intuitive. Should be for anyone who’s ever played a campaign shooter, ESPECIALLY the Borderlands franchise.
By the time you get here, you know that big shards are used to power stuff, and you have to crush the shards to power stuff down. You also have a functional understanding of scripted events. Well, SHOULD.
So you go after those shards. In a big arena. With sparse enemies visible. Knowing how warp anchors work with thrall enemies. And your enemy wants to protect his lead in the race to the objective. Just INTUITIVE that shard pads will draw more thrall to you when you move near them. And whaddaya know, that’s what really happens!
Now, I know I should want to be a good cat herder. But if a player honestly doesn’t recognize this for what it is right away, he/she probably can’t be taught by someone with my limited patience.
If only we could TK in this game…
[quote=“TheRAbbi, post:17, topic:1540873, full:true”]Now, I know I should want to be a good cat herder. But if a player honestly doesn’t recognize this for what it is right away, he/she probably can’t be taught by someone with my limited patience.
People are absolutely terrible at determining causality, especially if there’s some kind of delay in the consequences for an action (which there is in these cases). Honestly, I only learned about what triggered everything until I started doing Sentinel on hardcore and had to pay attention to everything in order to avoid wiping.
I don’t blame people for not knowing how the various things get triggered. I do blame people and get pissed when they derp around and get angry at everyone else for not following them to our collective dooms because they don’t realize they’re just making everything harder (when I first started playing, I ran a few missions with a guy who only played Galilea and always jumped right at the leftside shard that spawns based on proximity and then jumping down to go for the shard that it unlocks; when everyone else stayed up top and took pot shots to thin out the herd, he complained about people abandoning him and not backing him up… when he was making a suicide run that just clogged up an already full area).
It truly depends on team composition imho. I try to pick Alani for this stage and aim towards crowd control , low cooldown time and healing but the ppl i played with decided to all go heavy. Idc which healer you have , 1 healer and the rest trying to lone wolf it going for shards is a disaster and we didn’t even get past the second checkpoint…
Yet I topped the in game boards in every category. Including kills and damage dealt…
[quote=“RazzTy, post:19, topic:1540873, full:true”]Yet I topped the in game boards in every category. Including kills and damage dealt…
If you took Wave Shock, that’s why. Those damned golems are absolutely horrible to kill normally but ground effect damage is absolutely amazing against them.