Players, Not Gearbox are killing PVP

This topic ties into others that talk about training grounds/practice modes for newer players. It deals with matchmaking, which has been discussed ad nauseam.

I understand that Gearbox has expanded matchmaking to ensure that games are matched quicker. I understand that finding good players requires more work by ‘friending’ players that are decent. Neither one of these truly ‘fixes’ the problem.

What’s killing this game isn’t gearbox, or their changes to matchmaking. The game is struggling because the player base either doesn’t have a fundamental understanding of how to play PVP, or simply doesn’t care to try.

PVP games these days, for me, have devolved into an almost complete waste of time. Either my team is made up of players that try (and are usually handpicked from friends or from playing with previous players who I know will try) resulting in our annihilation of the other team and the much feared ‘premeds.’ Or alternatively while doing general public matchmaking will result in a complete annihilation of my team as one or two players submarines the entire team.

The game is designed (and well), so that an individual player will be unlikely to singlehandedly carry a team, but it is NOT currently designed well where a single player who chooses to not try or pursues the wrong things cannot destroy a decent team and ruin the match. Players that leave make 4 on 5’s virtually impossible to win (I as many others have won some of those game, as rewarding as it is, it’s not a sustainable model for fun in this game). Matchmaking errors where one player doesn’t ‘start’ in the game until later or not at all result in unbalanced teams.

Players that are attempting to up their kill death ratios, or who simply don’t have any desire to grab objectives in capture, or even try to push lanes in meltdown make the game unbearable to play lately.

Games that take 30+ minutes to play are ruined in the course of seconds because players don’t know or don’t choose to play the game at even a mediocre level. My hope is ranked matches fix this, but as currently constructed there is little incentive both in terms of rank/character rank, and skill to play this game. I’m simply looking for a community that is filled with players that TRY. Part of it is education on how to play modes, but a large part of it is the toxicity of the community itself and the egocentric nature of playing a game that is team based while the individual player is now.

I’m curious if others have had a similar experience as myself and if they have any ideas on how to better remedy the situation.


The reason I don’t play PvP are the toxic players.
I belong to several groups who have members that lack gamer Integrity.
They form teams then go fishing for newbies that are easy prey. Toxic in nature.


So you are complaining about losing because you think you’re grouped with bad players? I play as a single pug more then half the time and win about 80% of those games, ever think it might be you?

I don’t particularly find your comment conducive to discussion, but I’ll entertain it.

I’m not claiming to be a perfect player, and I find that there are reasonable players, even in PUGs. In fact I actually tend to friend them and attempt to play with them to avoid the PUG players. My post discusses this.

Your over simplification of my post also failed to notice that I spoke about players TRYING, and had nothing to do with losing. I don’t particularly CARE about losing. I care about players trying and having a reasonable game in a close or organized match. My post discussed both the discrepancies between organized versus public matchmaking, and also discussed the need for training or players understanding the mechanics of pvp matches.

Additionally, I was seeking insight into the egocentric nature of the community under the guise of the toxicity of the player base. You reinforced my point with your response.


You LITERALLY asked for the comment that I made;

As for;


As for;

No your entire post was complaining about how “bad” players ruin your experience, including the title of your post;

You had one sentence that was not about being grouped with bad pugs, the rest was all QQing about bad pugs. I could quote it and analyze it sentence by sentence if you would like.

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  1. There’s no point in blaming the playerbase. Even if they are the main source of some problem, you can’t solve it by blaming or arguing with them. People are who they are. It’s only the game that can be changed to counter/affect their “bad” behaviour.

  2. I find it quite ironic when people await good behaviour from everyone… in a PVP game. You are all here to kick each others’ asses. It’s the very nature of man to be egocentric and toxic in such events; only a few are able to avoid it.

@wisecarver, Yep, few of us want to relive those heady days of high school gym class where hazing and bullying was considered “cool”.

Even as more and more people get to level 100, I still end up with teams consisting of 2 or 3 very low level players (10 and under) against teams of 90+. Yes, command level doesn’t necessarily mean “good”, but it does mean experience and gear. With matchmaking like that, it wouldn’t matter if I had a world class perfect game, we’re getting stomped. For the most part, I’ve been avoiding PVP because I’m too competitive to enjoy getting crushed in 3/4 of my games. Lately I’m avoiding hitting play altogether.

Methinks this thread will rile the mods. Saying the problem with the game is the people playing it is asking for trouble…

For me, I’m happy to PVP with players of whatever playstyle or command rank. I accept that I’ll lose as much or more than I win. I’ll get frustrated at going on a losing streak and then go and play something else for a bit. I keep coming back.

I’ve played games with a much more toxic attitude to PVP players than this game. It’s not perfect, but that’s PVP. What frustrates me is that the game needs players, and yet a significant chunk of the playerbase won’t play with new players or quit out after five minutes because their rank isn’t high enough. Totally self-defeating in the long run…

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The point of the thread is two fold. One to understand if this is an isolated event that I’m having, and thus solvable, or if this is something greater and an experience players are having across the game.

Additionally this is a wonderful time to pivot to ideas. I think everyone would prefer close games that go down to the wire where a handful of crazy plays make the difference. What if anything can be done to help educate players and make the game better? Because if these kinds of issues aren’t resolved then we’ll have even less players to play with.

Most of the topics have been focused on what Gearbox can/should do to fix things, but I’m more interested if others have any ideas of what the player base can do.

Completely agree here.

I don’t mind losing a game (I don’t want to, and like most players I try not to!) but getting shouted at or receiving personal abuse just stops it being fun. That’s the reason I play with premades - because it tends to be a better social experience. I’m not sure what Gearbox can or should do about abuse - report systems seem kind of ineffectual to me.

I try and be a positive voice on the teams of any game I play, regardless of their ability… That seems to be something that will help the success of Battleborn.


I mean there’s tons of stuff to help level up player skill, it just requires initiative from the individual.

  • I don’t have the links in front of me but there’s a Battle Class project on these forums for skilled players to teach new players.
    *You could also private message people you team with that are obviously struggling and ask if they’d be interested in learning more about their character and getting feedback. Not everyone will be open to it so you just keep it moving and find people that are.
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Yup, i hate playing PVP because i often see cheaters like GOD LIKE (steam name) who still playes even though he is clearly cheating, getting healed to full in 1-2 seconds behind a wall on teams with no healers or no healers near him is very suspicious, i’ve never had him below 25% health either.

Good for you.

However, O P poses a perfectly valid and general question, backed by comprehensive reasoning.

You making snide remarks about O P’s personal skills - or lack thereof - is neither contributing nor helping towards a possible solution of the legit, underlying issue.


At launch,people complained but matchmaking was okay,not perfect sure.
They tweaked,matchmaking took longer but me and friends of my list (who stopped playing since,as I did) had really good match,despite our 80% win rate it would find people of equal skill.
Then they rewteaked because people complained,matchmaking went crazy,loss of players already started and it got worse at this moment imo.

Right now the big problem is that the player base can’t let us have a matchmaking based on skill,or the wait time are too long. I’m waiting for people to come back personally,DLC should start something,I hope.

My remark was a direct answer to the question he posed. Comprehensive reasoning? His reasoning is “I’m losing because my teammates don’t care, or know, to play the objective”. My “snide remark” was again, a objective answer to his question and rebutting his “comprehensive reasoning”, after all, if you are losing that often, there’s a common denominator, and it’s not your teammates.

If you think all “negative” comments do not contribute, you’re wrong and that’s not my problem. If you aren’t prepared to hear an answer you don’t like, don’t ask the question.

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If you’re interested in a player driven effort to help the players, @sbspalding has an idea or two.


Nova doesn’t cut it so I try my best to educate the less informed players about the game type were playing. Even if we lose, I find solace in knowing that that player will leave the match a bit smarter than when they started.


Allow me to help solve your, not mine nor his, YOUR problem. Stop caring. I play battleborn quite a bit and yeah I get matched with bad teammates sometimes but why care, not everyone is going to be playing on the same level since we’re humans and not some sort of hive mind. I always have fun when I’m playing simply because I don’t care if I win or lose. Yeah winning boosts that precious ego but all your doing is setting yourself up to be horribly frustrated at the next game. You win some, you lose some.


I really appreciate players who take the time to help other new players. It’s so awesome! The only game I’m vaguely competent at is Borderlands 2 so in pretty much all my online experiences I’ve flourished under the pearls of wisdom found in random lobbies. I know it can be frustrating to have new players on your team, but I also like to think that new players are what will keep a game going, so it’s in the community’s long term interest to give some salt-free help rather than just blaming them for a loss.