Please declutter anointment, class mod and artifact stat pools

I think by now most players would agree that possible bonus pools for anointments, artifacts and class mods are way overboard making finding anything build-specific, useful or enjoyable caught in the confines between a tedious chore and outright impossibility. I’d like to propose thinning them out, which would definitely put the farmability effort/reward ratio to acceptable and enjoyable levels.

Here are my propositions for bonuses that should be removed for each section of the items:

CLASS MODS:

  • All the manufacturer specific bonuses.

I’m sure some people have found some that by pure chance fit into the arsenal they use, but let’s face it - in most cases it’s next to impossible to match those and it’s pretty much at the end of every players priority list to do so when looking for a specific class mod. The gun specific bonuses are more than enough.

  • Elemental Resistance.

The Damage Reduction bonus is sufficient. This is a fast action driven FPS, most people will look for offensive bonuses. On top of that, each character has some defensive skills they can invest in. Elemental resistances are just unnecessary and since there is a total of five different elemental resistances it muddles the bonus pool quite severely. When you roll two good stats and Damage Reduction then you say to yourself “could have been better but it’s a useful thing to have” because it has a universal effect. When you roll a single elemental resistance when you know 90% of the time you’re being shot at with 6 different types of damage then you’re only disappointed by “what could have been” instead. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that I’m certain most players feel the same about this.

  • Splash Damage Radius.

I can understand that a small margin of players might find that desirable in conjunction with a specific gun build, but again let’s face it - it’s the last thing you’re gonna look for in a class mod in majority of cases. If you want to play around with emphasis on splash you just play as Moze and she has enough trouble as is with killing herself because of excessive splash radius and damage.


ARTIFACTS:

FFYL Downed Time and FFYL Movement Speed.

Nobody wants this on their artifact. Having this stat only makes you angry that you could have rolled something useful for that bonus slot instead. The bonuses for FFYL you get from Guardian Ranks and Perks are more than sufficient. Every player focuses on a combination of damage and survivability, part of which comes from DPS and the ability to clear the map at a rate preventing taking overwhelming fire. These priorities will always come first, way before anybody thinks about boosting their “last resort” options. The name of the game is to build and farm to a state where you don’t get downed often instead of investing in what happens when you do. All this of course, without even getting into how redundant this is because of how easy the game itself is.

All the elemental resistances.

Pretty much the same thing as in the case of Class Mods - it’s unnecessary and given that artifacts can roll two of the same resistance stat for a combined bonus just these alone increase the possible stat pool to beyond national lottery level.


ANOINTMENTS:

I’m going to be less specific here because it’s probably a much more contentious topic than the other two. With this in mind however, I still can’t understand what certain anointments are still doing in the game apart from making everybody tear their hair out while farming. Let’s start with something obvious:

  • “While an Action Skill is Active, constantly trigger novas that deal XXXX damage”

Can somebody please explain to me why is this in the game ? I’m not being passive-aggressive I’m actually asking if somebody can enlighten me because I can’t come up with a reason. There were shields in BL2 that did the same thing and they were UNIVERSALLY hated. Not only do the novas annoy you with their sounds every few seconds making you feel like you’re undergoing some advanced form of psycho-interrogation at the hands of KGB but they don’t have a radius big enough to hit anything, let alone time advantageously BUT they make damn sure you trigger every single barrel you go past to explode and down you. How is this enhancing the game in any way ?

  • “While an Action Skill is Active, Deal 75% more Weapon Damage to Badass, Named, and Boss enemies”

  • “While under 50% health, deal 150% bonus radiation damage”

  • “While enemies are below 25% health, gain 50% increased Weapon Damage”

  • “On action skill end - Next two magazines have 50% bonus elemental damage”

  • “On action skill end - 125% increased damage against Badass, Named, and Boss enemies”

  • “On action skill end - 75% increased weapon status effect chance and damage”

Pretty simple - please come up with one good reason you’d rather have any of these rather than any other +%%% damage class specific one or other damage boosting anointments like the bugged but still more useful +200% weapon damage ? What are these anointments still doing in the game ? The status effect one is downright laughable - status effect damage, which is mostly DoT doesn’t contribute to your DPS in any meaningful way and the standard effect chance is more than enough even on slower firing weapons.

  • “Consecutive Hits increase weapon damage by 1% per hit, misses remove all bonuses”

  • “Killing an enemy grants 5% Weapon Damage and Reload Speed for 25 seconds, this effect stacks”

Why would any player prefer this over guaranteed damage bonuses ? Stacking based on hits is tedious, the risk of losing them - very high. In no way are those bonuses reliable enough, even with higher damage ceiling than the guaranteed ones, to invest in them. All this is aside from there being no indicators for stacking or any other kind of item bonuses for that matter, to let you track your stacks/bonuses to actually test and see if it’s worth it for your character/build to use during normal play environment. The “on kill” one just builds up way to slowly to contest with set +%dmg ASA and ASE options. You literally have to kill 10 things to get on the +200% dmg level let alone contest something like STNL +100% Cryo on Zane.


I think Gearbox has done a really poor job with implementing those. It seems to me they just had a “creative” meeting where people were just throwing ideas out there rather than thinking “Why would a player use X over Y.” which is the most efficient way of weeding out useless clutter masked as "more options. More isn’t necessarily better if, like in many cases in this game all it does is make the gaming experience frustrating rather than enriching the build/play style diversity. Getting rid of the things I’ve mentioned in this post would, in my humble opinion not only make the late game farming (which is all this game is about after such a long time post-release) a much better and enjoyable experience while simultaneously leaving space to add more interesting and hopefully better thought out anointments in the future.

P.S.

I haven’t touched on the class specific anointments because I only play Zane, but if I can find problems there I’m sure it’s similar for other classes as well. An example of this would be Zane’s:

  • “After swapping places with Digi-Clone gain 130% increased weapon damage.”

and

  • “After swapping places with Digi-Clone your weapon is reloaded.”

Both of those have no chance contesting with STNL +100% Cryo, the multiclass +200% weapon damage or even the nerfed 300/90. But if you’d roll them together into:

  • “After swapping places with Digi-Clone your weapon is reloaded and you gain +200% weapon damage for a short time”

You might then have an interesting anointment to consider for a chaotic and dynamic play style. Damagewise it could contend with +200% weapon damage and STNL +100% Cryo but it would be conditioned by a timer. To balance that out instead, you’d get a free reload on top. How hard is it to figure something creative out ?

I would love for someone from GB to actually read this because it’s pretty apparent that they have a lot of trouble understanding their own game’s late game mechanics and how to enhance the player experience with meaningful implementations rather than the “more is better” approach. It’s also a rather somber fact that the game is, despite all the content, in a pretty sad state when it comes to overall enjoyability.

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Just FYI, but URad and Consecutive Hits are one of the best anointments in the game.

Yes some should be removed, but your choices are very debatable.

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Yeah Urad and CH are maybe the best anoints in the game , i’m not a fan of remove them , also “Killing an enemy grants 5% Weapon Damage and Reload Speed for 25 seconds, this effect stacks” should be change : Killing an enemy grants 50% Weapon damage and 10% reload speed stack up 6 times would be useful

Depends for which character. Like i said I only play Zane so it’s hard for me to justify having URad or CH over +200% Gun Damage let alone STNL +100% Cryo. URad is debatable if you use means of lowering HP but if you ask me personally, I’d still rather have many others that aren’t conditioned with something negative for what in my opinion isn’t that big of a damage boost. The CH is untenable except fighting bosses with huge hit boxes, at which point I’d still take having +200%, 300/90 or STNL Cryo from the get-go rather than slowly working towards an eventually 50% bigger bonus.

Btw. My list is as I’ve said at the beginning - a proposition. The forum is here exactly to debate. I’m sure all of us agree though, that stat pools for the things I’ve mentioned need to be reduced.

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You do know your action skills stack CH, right? Every source of damage from your character stacks it. As a Zane it should super easy to maintain full uptime of CH if you want to use it.

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5% seems a bit low but 50% is probably a bit to high :rofl:

but the anointment thing was broken from the getgo… GBX can’t even balance the weapons without them… the anointments make those balance issues stand out like a sore thumb…

It would be 300% for 6 kills maybe 200% for 4 kills ( 50% per kills stack 4 times ) could be good for mobbing but not for bossing , i try to find a good way to buff this anoints :grin:

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Yes I know that. I use Pearl for that same reason. As far as I can tell CH stacks up to 250% and it’s gun damage, yes ? Last time I checked the +200% GD was losing out in calculations to STNL Cryo so If that’s the case then even with that 50% GD on top it’s nowhere near the damage I can get from Cryo weapons with STNL Cryo anoint boosted by a Cryo Old God. That’s of course, discounting the fact that Cryo is the damage you want to have any bonus damage % calculated of off since a Cryo usually has (least on the weapons I farm) the highest damage per shot listed on the card out of all the other elements (except kinetic). To make that clearer let’s use The Lob as an example: The highest possible damage modifier on The Lob is +149% as far as I can tell. A Rad Lob with +149% before the level cap increase went up to 38k per shot. Cryo +149% Lob topped at 40k. The differences are quite big sometimes. To use another example: I farmed for a Cryo + STNL Cryo Helix just recently (took two weeks - yay), I’ve seen every other possible Helix along the way. Rad Helix went up to 98XX per shot on a god roll, max roll Cryo Helix spits out 1141 per shot. You calculate that using all the modifiers Zane has and the diference increases even more. To each his own. I’m sure every one of us has good reasons to use what they use. I would appreciate if you dialed the vitriol down - you don’t agree with me - I got that. Even if you remove those two anointments that you so staunchly defend from the list I’ve made, there is still plenty to remove anyway to get the game to a state where you can enjoy farming rather than want to commit suicide after a while.

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Because you have 100s of % of gun damage from Violent Momentum on Zane. Another 200% from CH won’t do much for him. That’s one character though. Zane is unique on that he has one overwhelmingly powerful source of gun damage that trumps any other single source in the game so the opportunity cost for him to take more gun damage through anoints is much higher than other chars.

That’s why I admitted that my view would be skewed because I main Zane and I’m aware of the fact that my list is debatable. Still - we all see the problem with too many possible stat rolls on items, no ?

Yes, absolutely. Still , I think there is also the possibility of putting the cart before the horse and not seeing the potential of certain bonuses. Airborn and slide just needed another buff to be really great, but they got flat out removed instead. Cyber spike wasn’t amazing, but it was a fun alternative build that competed well on M10. The nova anointments during action skill suck for most characters, but Amara and Moze can do some interesting things with it.

The unfortunate thing with balancing the game around the anointment system is that the interesting off-meta anoints are seen as obstacles to getting the only “worthy” anoints. Sure, we could definitely do with some more fat trimming (most of the class specific anoints kinda suck), but there is some (not a ton) of room for negotiating which ones really can’t be saved.

When it comes to passive stats though, 100% agree. Most of them could be consolidated into a bigger bonus or flat out removed with little effect on the game.

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I’ve balanced stuff in a very popular StarCraft UMS map years ago, I know there is a point where you hit the wall of finite possibilities confined by the game’s mechanics. That said though, if you’re careful, thoughtful and smart you can easily add a lot of things that are on the same level of usefulness. GB isn’t even trying - that’s the problem.

agreed that anointments need some further change and balancing :wink:

I am ok with weapon producer bonuses on cmods, but I immediately toss/sell any that has two different weapon producers on it.

Either I’ll get a cool one for a loyalty run, or I’ll avoid producer bonuses, but I’ll never go with e.g. a Torgue damage and a Jacobs accuracy together. What would be the point?

URad, N2M, and CH anointments are three of the best weapon anointments in the game, so I do not agree at all with what you have said regarding those.

Since you mentioned Zane specifically, URad in particular works well on Zane in Front Loader builds using the barrier, but Urad is also a top-tier anointment for Fl4k and Amara, and some Moze players really like it as well, although there have been plenty of debates on these forums about whether it is top-tier or “meta” for her.

In any event, I agree with the premise that it would be nice if, based upon SHIFT data regarding the playerbase’s use of anointments and passives, GBX eliminated some of the anointments/passives. I do not agree though with some of your choices.

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Urad and consecutive hits are top tier annointments. You clearly don’t have a grasp on the game.

You certainly don’t speak for all players as unanimously as you suggest you do.

I totally agree with a lot of your picks, but totally disagree with some.

Splash damage radius is a terrific one to have. It amplifies so many different things: grenades, torgue, launchers, novas(?) and various skills (eg amara elemental explosions), perks and mods. Unlike manufacturer bonuses or elemental resistances, it is really wide ranging and can benefit many different play styles and characters.

The FFYL ones should definitely stay. Admittedly I don’t use them nowadays because the game is currently very easy and guardian perks have greatly buffed FFYL already. But I used to love them when I was first trying to solo the Maliwan take down, for example. It was a delight to find a “temporary invulnerability” artifact which rolled with FFYL stats. Hopefully one day there’ll be really difficult content again, and these will again be welcome. Besides, if you want to scrap these stats, you may as well scrap the defensive artifacts altogether. I say there’s a place for both.

I totally agree with the elemental resistance. There are so many that they clog up the pool, and they basically all amount to same thing: a tiny reduction in the technicolor barrage of elemental damage you receive.

When I first read your thoughts on manufacturer buffs, I totally agreed: too specific, too many of them. But on second thought, I’ve often been happy to get these, for one big reason: they stack with the general weapon buffs.

You’ll never (to my knowledge) get two +critical damage stats on one mod. But if you’re a fl4k player and you get a +critical damage and a +Jacobs critical damage, then you just may have hit your god roll. Similarly, back when I was using the OPQ a lot, it was great getting a com with +assault rifle damage and +atlas damage. With so many guns under performing, I’m glad that there’s at least a possibility for this kind of double-dipping that might actually make a few more guns viable.

Build diversity is suffering enough, without calls to reduce the variety of artifacts and mods. Though I agree the elemental resistance ones should go, as they harm diversity by clogging up the pool with fairly inconsequential stats.

The best idea about anointments I’ve read recently was someone suggesting that the proving grounds could have a machine at the end that lets you reroll 1 anointment (or I guess artifact/com stats too) on an item. So you could have some control over your anointments, but it would cost you time and money and wouldn’t feel too cheap and easy

Probably not a popular take but I’m not a big fan of outright removing things from the game in most cases. I might not use something but that doesn’t mean others don’t. By collating similar bonus stats together we can achieve the same goal of decluttering the pools without removing things players might use for builds.

Example: I absolutely hate manufacture specific bonuses. But I understand that they’re a cool thing to have for players who do allegiance characters/challenges. So instead of removing them all, it might be nice to see all Tediore bonuses for example put into one single “general” buff to Tediore weapons. So when you get this roll your damage, reload speed, accuracy, and fire rate with Tediore guns would be improved. This approach cuts down on possible rolls and also makes the remaining ones more desirable without removing anything that players might enjoy using.

Another manner would be simply give players more control over what passives are on their gear. Let’s say there’s a machine in-game that lets you re-roll one passive on your class mod at a time for 5 eridium per re-roll. Then all of a sudden it’s not a huge deal if there are a bunch of less desirable stat rolls because there’s a reasonable assumption players can get what they’re looking for. I’m not saying this is a great solution since players might want God-rolled gear to still be difficult to obtain but it’s an example of an alternative. I know re-rolling stats has been suggested 7,129 times by now so this isn’t anything new.

That being said I agree with the problem: way too many passives in the pool for class mods and artifacts (not even taking into account random skill distribution on COMs and prefixes on artifacts). Really would like to see these things get looked into.

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some of these i agree with as not fan of certain company gun damage’s on class mods for sure as prefer all around gun damage as for certain company one’s it makes the guns i like to use kinda dead if there not from that gun company etc…