Please don't let micro transactions or loot boxes ruin borderlands 3


(First-Sword of the Moderators | Discord Hypesquad) #21

I know I’m strongly against MTs beyond Cosmetics. Whenever MTs negatively impact the balance of the game “as bought” I’m against it completely.


(Super Badass Constructor ) #22

This is pretty much my stance too. I also highly detest games that try to force you to buy because they balance the game-play around MT’s… Look at most cellphone games here… It’s horribly rampant in FTP cellphone games.


(A euclid-class anomaly) #23

In an ideal world the answer to if it would be acceptable is yes or indifferent, but that’s not how the industry works. If MTs are introduced into a game, the devs/publisher (typically publisher in this case) have to put an incentive to buy them. Usually the incentive is cosmetic stuff that can’t be easily found otherwise, but once you put in gameplay related things (i.e weapons) there has to be reason why the players would spend money vs spending time to get them for free.

If you can reasonably farm items, there’s little to no incentive to buy them. Which means there will likely either be crate exclusive weapons or nerfed drop rates to compensate and push crate sales. Once there’s a pay-thru option, companies want to push that option (because obviously it makes more money for them) and the game has to be worked around that. Given that BL3 is a shoot n loot grind out, it would tamper with the spirit of the game pretty heavily if its altered to compensate for loot box sales.

Additionally, if there were loot crates with this kind of gameplay implications, the game would almost certainly be online only with some aggressive anti cheat. Being able to just fudge items in would hurt sales, after all. Quite a number have already expressed that online only would be a deal breaker.


(In Vino Veritas) #24

Borderlands is an oddity in the industry, and if anything, I think they’ll just keep on expanding on item variety.

‘20 new guns in the Sawtooth Items Set!’
‘30 new shields in the Pangolin Love Shack Set!’

See, that is what I’d see them doing. A bit closer to what Paradox games have done in the past.

They know the fact that their sale point is they are literally the only true 100% couch co-op shooter in the market today. Friendships are literally strengthened or destroyed on the back of hunts.

Release sets, and bundle them on a discount every time a new set comes out (like Paradox). Sure you can wait. But can you resist the temptation of sweet new hunts?

In essence, you can expand the game ad infinatum that way with actual, relatively harmless, content.

Definitely a possibility, but I’d rather that not be the case.

100% agreed.


(Boring Ol' Album Cover) #25

You are certainly much more optimistic about this, Giu. I see them trying to balance drops around selling loot boxes and drop rate booster packs, myself. After how much they balanced character progression in NBA 2K18 around virtual currency, I won’t trust or expect 2K to not do that.


(In Vino Veritas) #26

I stopped buying FIFA due to that nonsense.

You’re releasing the same game every year and now you’re charging me to play it? Thanks but no thanks. I can kick around a ball outside with my mates.


(Boring Ol' Album Cover) #27

And with other big publishers adding loot into games that never had loot before specifically for the sole purpose of MTs and loot boxes, and Borderlands being ripe perfect for that by having loot to begin with… yeah, 2K won’t be able to have enough napkins to wipe up their drool at thinking of all the money they’ll make from BL3 loot boxes…


(Guajiro Pandoreño) #28

If these come to pass, they have crossed the line. I’m optimistic that they won’t, but if they do, well, I still might buy it (my tolerance for ignoring microtransactions in a single-player game is, apparently, unusually high) if the gameplay is solid.

This appears to be a serious deal breaker for some people. If there’s an option to buy your way out of a grind, the game is flawed. I’m curious if the option to buy your way out of a grind with in-game currency would be a deal breaker too, or if it’s because being able to do it with cash is somehow unfair?


(Gone off comms, will update this when i feel like) #29

For clarity purposes I’m assuming you mean a currency that is earned in game at a reasonable rate.

This in itself I wouldn’t see an issue with depending on application.

For example ea’s battlefront 2 if it raised the credit earn rate would be something I’m fine with even if I despise progression in a multiplayer game being tied to RNG

But reports from the early access I heard place average earnings at about 30 credits a minute…and the cheapest loot box is 2200 credits…in my opinion that is an example of gameplay being made worse to incentivize micro transactions

But paying $60 for the game. And then potentially a season pass(I’ll call $20 here even though it can be more) makes reaching into people’s even more without providing NEW VALUE VIA GAMEPLAY off limits (headhunter packs add this so are an exception to this)


(Guajiro Pandoreño) #30

Yes, in-game currency, but if the earning rate is so low that it makes the game unenjoyable (regardless of whether or not there’s an option to buy one’s way out), the game is lame, period, and has nothing to do with microtransactions? Is it the thought that they made the earning rate decision based on greed as opposed to something else (like just a bad call) that’s the issue?

Is the issue then that the game is overpriced? If the game was free but the currency earning rate was still atrocious and the microtransaction engine was unchanged, would that make a difference?

Do we get to tell a company that they aren’t allowed to sell optional game additions that we don’t think add gameplay value? Do we get to tell a company not make a rich man’s game that caters to “whales” who have the expendable currency to dump into this sort of thing? I don’t even think we get to tell a company to make a game not suck. I mean we can tell them all this, but they’re not obliged to listen (and at some level, it’s their funeral if they don’t listen when large volumes of people skip a purchase), but you see what I’m saying.


(Boomshanka08) #31

It think it is inevitable now. So much bad press around the in-game rewards, monetization and grinding associated with the latest titles Star Wars Battlefront 2 (another) and Need For Speed Payback. Every game seems to be adding in game currency and are no longer content with cosmetic micro-transactions and season passes as the opportunity to make more than that without any consider return is not available. Supercell makes $5 million a day of the mobile game Clash of Clans and this model has now permeated into Console and PC gaming. Take 2 seems to be leading the charge along with EA in adding models of ongoing in-game payments that extend above season passes and skin purchases. The whales (high rollers) will feed the industry just like mobile gaming does. It is the death of gaming as we know it.


#32

What like the NFS World system?
The cheapest car was like 300 to 400k and you earned $100 to $500 PER RACE WIN
They had a Boost point currency which was just your own money and the only real way you could get a car upgrade or even bodykits
This (even though it isnt) is why i hate mobile games and honestly if more games go like that im done


(Guajiro Pandoreño) #33

If the pricing and earn rate in NFS World was unchanged but boost points weren’t available for cash, would that make it better? It shouldn’t: if the economy sucks, for whatever reason, the game’s not fun.

The concern at large seems to be that developers will sacrifice an otherwise acceptable game economy to drive sales of these sorts of boosters, and that’s not an invalid concern. The difference between our messages is, I think, that people are saying, “Please don’t let micro transactions or loot boxes ruin borderlands 3” where my message is “Please don’t let anything ruin borderlands 3”. I don’t care what drives the decision that ultimately makes a game bad: greed, accident, incompetence, just a bad call… any of these could ruin the game, and none of them are any more acceptable to me than the other.

In the case of Borderlands 2, for example, I think the original drop rates for orange and pearlescent rarity gear was atrocious (it’s still pretty rough after that one patch). Is this not on people’s radar because Gearbox didn’t include microtransactions to mitigate this? If Gearbox had offered items for cash that buffed drop rates, would the current drop rate suddenly seem like it had been designed to encourage these sales?




Unrelated but food for thought: is following social media more acceptable than paying cash? Assume we’re talking about the weapon drop economy as it is currently in BL2.

If the Golden Chest offered guaranteed legendary weapons with a decent chance at a pearlescent, would that have been a deal breaker?

If the SHiFT codes from social media granted items that enhanced drop rates (maybe you assign it to a boss who’d guarantee his rare drop on the next kill, maybe it’s good for half an hour of guaranteed drops from whatever you kill, etcetera), would this ruin the game?


#34

I wouldn’t care personally (because i hate farming) but the people that would call themselves very pure (yeah ive seen people do that) i think would be absolutely livid about this even if they were put out lets say once every 3 months…im sure its more often but i dont really use social media


#35

Agreed
One big thing can ruin a game or get close to it…like a terrible upgrade system or god awful physics


(Gone off comms, will update this when i feel like) #36

Yes it would be better to me because free or cheap games have more leeway in this to me. It’s either I buy the game or I buy MT’s in it, definitely not both

Sure we can, and it’s easy. It’s the same as any other free market

Fight with your wallets.

don’t buy games that do this crap new. Wait till the game goes on sale preowned and don’t give the company a cent for it.(then you have to deal with a thing like GameStop but you have to pick your devils)


(First-Sword of the Moderators | Discord Hypesquad) #37

Unless you’re on PC since very few PC games get physical copies nowadays. Though steam does have a good few sales - I think we have Black Friday at the end of this month, and Winter Sale for the last week of December.


(Gone off comms, will update this when i feel like) #38

Very true, but steam does sales more often as well(as you mentioned)


(Stay frosty.....) #39

For me , the worst thing is when games deliberately place limits to progression just to then sell you the means to evercome those limits.

With the depth of most modern games , and the need to sometimes keep up with a certain level of game time to stay on point with other players , I think some mt’s can be helpful to people who cant log as many hours but dont want to get left behind.


#40

Asura's_Wrath_Cover_Art
If you get why i put this picture up…have a chocolate