Please don't let micro transactions or loot boxes ruin borderlands 3


(Stay frosty.....) #144

What do they mean by altering the players game experience?
Altering the difficulty to make you pay for better stuff or does it mean visual things?


(Is this thing on?) #145

Based on some of the articles about other games posted up-thread, probably things like match-making, rate of XP gain, enemy damage/hit points, … Dynamic difficulty scaling has been in some games for a while, for various reasons. It makes sense in something like LEGO Star Wars, for example, where some of those playing are obviously going to be young and inexperienced (and you want to keep such games fun). To manipulate players into dropping hard actual cash to boost there chances in a competitive game, though - shudder.

Edit:


#146

I’m sure someone already said this but one thing that will kill it is if they do a pay for an hour of double XP…stuff like that always has gotten under my skin (I don’t this is likely but it’s possible)


(Is this thing on?) #147

I think that only comes to play if you have:

  • A competitive game
  • Gear and/or skills that unlock through XP levelling with progress retained between matches

So, like loadouts and centre helix choices in BB. Makes sense to give new players a chance to catch up with those who’ve played the game for while. Still not a fan of the real money thing, but you can buy those boosters with platinum either paid for or earned through daily and weekly challenges. This is where figuring out rates of earn in-game versus real-world cost becomes a real challenge. Honestly, better avoided for something like Borderlands where it really isn’t necessary.


(Super Badass Constructor ) #148

Thank you VH for linking this to me lmao I couldn’t remember were it was posted.

I swear the main psychology trait most games pray on is impatience when it comes to transactions. Alot of games I play on my phone prey on this big time, yet it doesn’t influence me because I have extreme sense of patience.

If I ran into this dynamic scaling i’d take it as a challenge and say f-u to the underlying scheme of trying to milk my money. I tend to pick up on these little mindgames too… sadly one of my favorite games on my phone has a terrible pay to win system… hell they didn’t even listen to their beta testers for this one hero, and released her as is…


( The Dogs Bollocks) #149

Just imagine loot boxes in a game were governed by a random generator and you were getting extremely bad drops from that box.
Now imagine that game had a purchasable loot box with a better than average chance of getting something good.
You may say to yourself I’ll give the for sale box a go and got something you feel was good you may buy several more. Say the ai in the game could recognise this spending habit and deliberately give you poor drops so that you feel the need to purchase the box than rely on drops from the game.

Edit.

In Trions game Defiance they had an event where you earned currency in game and could buy a loot box from a in game vending machine.
In this box you could get legendary and jackpot weapons but to be honest the rng wasn’t that good but they also had that same box on sale in the games store and actually said you had a better chance of a decent drop, so in effect it was pay to win.

However sometime after the event finished they had to admit that somehow the two boxes got mixed up and the box that was supposed to be in the store was actually put in the ingame vendor.
People who had bought the boxes from the store were compensated somehow but the thing I found hilarious was that people who just played the game and used the in game currency to buy the loot box from the vendor reported no increase in better drops than normal.


(Stay frosty.....) #150

That sounds really suspect to be honest , and its the shady side of it that worries me with micro-transactions.

I have no problem with skins or cosmetic stuff being paid for , at the end of the day someone had to put the extra time in to create them so its only fair we pay for them if the developer chooses.

But manipulating game drops , creating false difficulty , deliberately witholding progression just to ‘trick’ people into paying extra is pretty low.

In my opinion
Quality , optional content will sell itself , so theres no reason other than greed to use any underhanded tactics.


#151

A revolution is coming with the game Monster Hunter World. Other companies will see how successful a game can be without loot micro-transactions and paid dlc. Hopefully Gearbox learns from them and follow/capitalize on the approach for Borderland 3.


(Is this thing on?) #152

Another poke at the loot box bear:


(Stay frosty.....) #153

Ive heard that an MP in England has also expressed concern over the gambling aspect of loot boxes , and he has brought it up , or intends to bring it up in a parliament session.

I’ll try to find out more and post back.


( The Dogs Bollocks) #154

( The Dogs Bollocks) #155

Uk petition to change the English law to accommodate video games loot boxes.
If your a UK resident you can sign it here.

You have to be 18 or over.


(Matrixneo42) #156

Agreed. Now a company has to consider whether or not it costs too much or too little in-game currency to buy a given item VS too much or too little real cash to buy a given item.

Also. For what it’s worth. I have played a TON of Shadow of War over the past month or so. It has loot chests that you can buy for Gold (1 gold == 1 penny US $ ). Gold can buy you in game items, or orcs. Orcs can die and be removed. So you could spend 2 to 7$ and get a bunch of named orcs that could die if you aren’t careful how you use them and/or you don’t save their life in time. You can also earn a ton of Silver in the game. Silver can buy mostly the same stuff, just a lesser chance for rares. Also you can directly earn gold chests and gold. And you can directly go dominate orcs. They are effectively infinite as you can keep killing them and more random ones will show up. There is no reason to spend real cash on them.

TLDR? I bought the game and never bought any gold. I reached level 60 and completed the entire story (even the long 4th act). I enjoyed the crap out of that game. The gold is overpriced vs cash. And either way, it’s not how I play games.

And I still feel like playing it. Even though I have almost filled every castle and assault team with dominated level 60 orcs. My legendary items are about 36 out of 60. There are some more things to find and side missions to do.

I don’t like the fact that you can spend real cash to speed up your progress. But it didn’t affect my actual enjoyment of the game. I think the only reason why is that I could earn the things you can buy for $. If the only way to get legendary items or legendary orcs was through buying and using gold, then I would be out in the streets picketing the publishers.


(Matrixneo42) #157

re: keeping things fair through online only …

Follow Diablo 3’s console model. You can play Diablo 3 on console offline or online. And you can play in seasonal mode (seasons last about 10 weeks or something, you start a new online only character, when the season is done your character becomes an offline character).

As for a potential dupe/hacked item fix for Borderlands… as a programmer, I don’t think there is a solution. Maybe encryption of your save file? But there are also tools that modify the game values while it’s running. So, unless you can stop that too, I just don’t think there’s a way. And fixes for duping? You’d have to save the player data every time they initiate selling or dropping an item.


(Matrixneo42) #158

Do they think that people will still be playing it 80 years from now?


(Matrixneo42) #159

I still think that’s 2 years from now. And/or whenever Destiny 3 comes out. If they did it now, I think they would lose too much trust/fans.


(Silver Helix) #160

Microtransactions themselves aren’t bad. It’s the way that game developers and publishers use microtransactions that is bad. Gaming is about time and spending that time to acquire new gear or get further in the game. If you are unable to make time for your games then either it’s time to make some life changes or it’s time to get a different less time consuming hobby. People should not be able to pay their way through the time requirement of video games and thereby skip any work that needs to be put in to get cool gear or to get further in the game. In my honest opinion being able to pay in order to get better loot that would otherwise take a significant amount of time to find is a form of cheating. It’s a different story if it’s for stuff that only changes the appearances of your character, like skins or alternate colors, but if you can just essentially pay your way through the game then what is the point of playing at all?

I actually think I might have a solution to this problem that both parties would agree to (people for microtransactions and people against it). What if they implement a system where you can still pay for stuff if you choose to, but instead of outright getting the gear you get an increased chance of finding cool loot instead. Like instead of paying X amount for Y item (or item box) you get an increased drop chance for awesome loot. Something like for an entire week you gain +15% increased chance to get better loot. That way the people who pay for microtransactions still need to put at least some work into actually finding the items.


(Is this thing on?) #161

This is in Battleborn - the Loot Booster packs. I used the ones I got for free, but that was it. IIRC opinion was divided on them, but you could get them using Pt earned through the daily challenges. I think it’s more a benefit for those coming in late to the game who need a chance to catch up gear-wise.


(Cayde 6) #162

That’s a big if. As long as it’s a problem to work around in one or two countries, and not the BIG markets, it’s not gonna have an effect. Get the USA or UK or South Korea or someone to regulate it adults-only as gambling, though, and then you’ll see change.

Unfortunately it seems most law makers don’t really care about video games beyond the minimal concerns regarding censorship so parents don’t use that as a hammer to beat law makers with. Also, I suspect the countries in Europe that would have the biggest effect should games with lootboxes be rated adult only, are also the ones with significant developer and publisher presence. The age ratings by these ‘boards’ are usually dubious anyway. I never understood why quality games like Spec Ops: The Line and Mass Effect get rated 18/mature, while games that endorse gambling with lootboxes can be rated teen, like Destiny.


(The RAbbi) #163

Yeah, agreed. I don’t see it changing soon, to be honest. I think it more likely that game publishers will back down a little over time as backlash (like with Battlefront 2) occurs, and they’ll look for balance. Sooner or later, Bungie and Activision will have to back up off of the current model with Destiny 2 and Eververse. Too many streamers and content producers are shifting away from D2 to games like Monster Hunter World (My Name Is Byf) or Fortnite Battle Royale (Hot damn is that fun!).