Please don't let micro transactions or loot boxes ruin borderlands 3


(Boring Ol' Album Cover) #164

Simple. The ESRB’s parent organization is run by a collection of all the big publishers, so they can just simply tell the ESRB to totally ignore the fact that putting real gambling in your game is supposed to get an AO rating automatically. And I can imagine something similar across the rest of the world, like maybe Ubi having a lot of pull in Europe and such.

And, speaking as a fan of both Spec Ops and Mass Effect, they really do deserve an M rating due to their content. But as I said, it’s bias and corruption that causes lootbox filled games to not get the proper rating.


(Cayde 6) #165

Well I suspected publishers had some input on the ESRB/PEGI classifications but I guess I didn’t realise it was actually self-run. Yeah allowing companies to self-regulate won’t cause any problems. Enron was a total figment of my imagination…

I haven’t played Mass Effect in its entirety but I suspect I’m less concerned about violence than most if it isn’t ‘mindless’ like some horror films are (I’m probably biased as I played Mortal Kombat at a young-ish age). At least it feels hypocritical that gambling in games is deemed suitable for minors while I grew up watching Formula 1 that had to deal with the removal of tobacco sponsorship on cars. Meanwhile I haven’t seen adverts for alcohol or even chocolate on TV while about half of the association football teams are sponsored by betting companies. I’d say to treat lootboxes in games as real life slot machines.


(Cayde 6) #166

Oh I have heard of all the content creators moving on via Reddit. I think the fact that a lot of them moved to Fortnite shows that developers can attract players without going for expensively made AAA titles. Also, Bungie sacrificed a lot of the ‘RPG elements’, like character customisation, in the second instalment and I can see why a lot of players have been disusaded from that. I still play Destiny 2 as I have a seriously dedicated crew I raid with but, if it wasn’t for them, I’d have stopped playing the game ages ago. If I wanted less power fantasy in a sci-fi setting where the loot might as well be unlocks in a standard shooter then I can just play Halo.


(The RAbbi) #167

I’m still wading into D2 slowly; just did my third through sixth crucible matches ever yesterday, and ran a bunch of normal strikes. Even as a newcomer (Aug. '17) to the franchise, I’m seeing pretty clearly why so many players are bailing.

They changed a lot of important but small details of a successful game. They took 2-3 years getting D1 right, then tossed out so much of what they finally got right. It’s like they don’t know their own game.

Coming back on topic, that’s a big fear I have for BL3. BL2 was damned near perfect. BL3 will be different. How, though? Man, that’s the $64,000 question right there…


(Cayde 6) #168

There are times where I know they don’t know their own game. During Destiny 1 they designed the Golgoroth encounter so that we’d use any special weapon other than sniper rifles. And yet, no legendary shotgun will be able to output enough damage due to the range nerfs and pellet spread on full auto shotguns being punishing beyond barrel stuffing range. They even nerfed the PvE damage buff shotguns were given in House of Wolves during The Taken King.

I’m more comfortable with Gearbox with Borderlands knowing what their game is as they are a much smaller studio than Bungie, don’t have any egos like some Bungie developers appear to have, and there’s no PvP to worry about.


(BroaderKinakajou) #169

Yes please don’t use microtransactions Borderlands is great without it


#170

It’s not likely that they will do anything crazy (thank God) but if they do they will have the same response EA did


(Nerorath) #171

Like other have already stated numerous times in this thread. Microtransactions are fine as long as it’s just skins. I say let them go crazy on cosmetics if it earns them more money. Will add that the Headhunter packs in BL2 were some of the best bang for your buck from any small time purchase.


#172

More news towards loot Boxes. Other developers should take the example from the Monster Hunter Devs. They value gameplay and completely discarded loot boxes and paid DLCs.


(Matrixneo42) #173

Well. Our society is weird. It’s more ok in the US for a kid to mutilate and kill thousands of creatures/humans/monsters than to see some boobs or sex. It’s odd when you think about it.


(Matrixneo42) #174

PvP balances vs PvE balances. Generally why I feel the balances made in one mode shouldn’t be allowed to affect the other.

and/OR

that the gear you earn/use in PVP can only be used in PVP. And the gear you earn/use in PVE can only be used in PVE. But playing PVE or PVP could both reward legendary marks to allow you to go buy gear for one or the other.

AND/OR

dont make a game with both modes.

and/or

make a game that is focused on one of those modes and dont pretend like the other mode is anywhere near as important. At least the game would be honest at that point.


(The RAbbi) #175

Which is pretty much Borderlands 1/2/TPS. PvE matters, PvP is an afterthought at best. I’m alright with this.

Interesting point you brought up above about having different gear for PvE and PvP. I guess some games do this. WildStar, for instance, has separate PvE and PvP gear sets. As I’ve never done the PvP thing in WildStar, I couldn’t tell you how well it works. (If queue times are any indication, though, their PvP is dire.) But yeah, they’ve got separate gear in there. It can be done.

But then, considering the first point, I think the second is kinda moot. Why bother with PvP-peculiar gear if PvP is limited to dueling over loot? IF there’s gonna be a serious PvP effort, then sure. But I highly doubt there will. After all, if they tried to balance weapons for PvP then it’d ruin so much of what’s fun about the 99% PvE BL games to-date. Imagine getting one-shot by a Pimpernel, or getting a Deputy Salvador up in your grill. “Oh, what’s that? Maya phaselocked you and then got wicked with the Sandhawk (with Legendary Cat COM, of course)? That had to suck.”

Here’s a primer list of gear we’d never see again if we had to be balanced for PvP:

  • Sandhawk
  • Pimpernel
  • Unkempt Harold
  • the Bee
  • Antagonist
  • Florentine
  • Sham
  • Grog Nozzle (to be fair, it was a gimmicky quest weapon except for that one time in the loot hunt…)
  • Flakker

Or, if any of those did show up, they’d have been nerfed into oblivion. Consider the 88 Fragnum versus any Unkempt Harold. They took one of the most devastating guns in the game and made it virtually worthless.

So yeah, if PvP comes around as a real effort, then I fear for the PvE game’s future. To be honest, I think it’d be a huge mistake to even attempt it. For now, balance is just a matter of making each vault hunter more-or-less viable; even if one isn’t great, there’ll still be 3-second raid boss kill videos with that one. And while balancing the four or six vault hunters to each be viable for a certain playstyle (at least) is not easy, it’s something that Gearbox has already nailed down pretty well two times out of three (and IMO they did pretty well with TPS too).

Like it or not, this is a company and franchise that excels at PvE and doesn’t really have an iron in the PvP fire recently (Project 1v1 notwithstanding, though I didn’t get in on the CTT).


(Cayde 6) #176

Extra Credits has a video on this, although I can tell by the downvotes that it is not very well received.

Seems to me the AAA industry (in Jim Sterling’s high pitched voice) need to downsize the games that require an exortantionate budget because sooner or later lawmakers are going to get fed up with it.


(Caseyj20) #177

I think it will be a very good factor to the gane because now you cant just go out and find some over powered loot and just grab it i think it will add more fun and more gameplay to the game itself and also say its loot you cant use because your not high enough level then you can spebd money to get that loot then you can sell that loot which will prob be worth more which means your making money like really if you put enough thought into this you can just see how this will add more fun to the game and how i think it will makr it better.


(Is this thing on?) #178

Well, looks like EA completed the U-turn on Star Wars microtransactions:

Real money purchases on again, but only for cosmetic items (just as most of us would prefer).


(Guajiro Pandoreño) #179

…didn’t read the article, but I was under the impression that regardless of the upgrades, the “linear, in-game experience” was tweaked in a way that made it nigh impossible to get the upgrades in this manner (as they were trying to push these sales). If they just ditched the for-sale upgrades without changing the underlying game, I’m not sure if the game is any better for it (though the playing field for multiplayer is probably slightly evened out).


(Is this thing on?) #180

No, they actually changed a bunch of stuff. They’d already made one pass at the progression model while disabling all cash purchases. It looks like they’ve finally made peace with the Borderlands 2 in-game purchase model, and finished tweaking the in-game progression to find the balance between grind and sprint.


(Ponderer of Ideas and Musings) #181

I think they could pull off a PVP aspect to Borderlands 3 if and only if it is a completely detached and unique experience from the campaign. Meaning that the mechanics are vastly modified to fit a PVP experience. Either the guns and gear have the same names but work entirely different or they have equipment that is specific to PVP and cannot be found throughout the campaign. Also player skills trees would have to be vastly different as well and specifically tailored for a balanced PVP experience.

I’ve pitched some PVP ideas on the old forums that are akin to a sort of Battle Royale where you start with random weapons and get loot for better gear depending on your performance in that round only. This would make a pvp version of the game fun and enjoyable but not dependent on anything you do in the main campaign. Since PVE is the focus of the franchise any PVP focus should be geared towards casual and light-hearted fun rather than making the game a serious competitive multiplayer.


(Ponderer of Ideas and Musings) #182

This is not a troll. I am not attempting to drum up controversy. I am serious, but I am also serious about being open minded. I think the idea of a PVP battle royale in BL3 (TPUAYGPITBS [c] psychichazard) could be viable, even fun, if done right. I mentioned that I think it could be a good thing if and only if it is entirely separate from the mechanics of the PVE game. I still believe this is the way to go, but what if not just mechanically separated, but actually a separate game download altogether?

Now before I trigger all the knee-jerk troll hards (perhaps I’m too late), bear with me for a second longer. Assuming the developers have at least considered the idea of multiplayer PVP (dueling in BL2, and arenas from BL1), they could release the next Borderlands game as a stand alone game with no PVP option, keeping the advocates for only coop happy. But, when you download the game there could be an option to download a free seperate version of the game that includes a borderlands battle royale, appeasing those that would be interested in it.

When playing Borderlands you could earn aesthetic oriented items to wear in the battle royale (perhaps an option to negate this if the player chooses), while those who haven’t purchased Borderlands can download the free Battle Royale game and obtain said items through Microtransactions or through slow progression currency in game.

Additionally, I don’t think it would add a lot of work to the development team IF they were already planning on doing PVP. Licensing and copyrights are the only additional work I can think of to accomplish this, but Micro transactions from impatient players would likely off set these costs. Not to mention those that gateway into the franchise title by virtue of the free version. Surely there would be a few.

Perhaps this is a bit cavalier and presumptuous but I still think it’s the best way to include PVP if they were going to do it. I have ideas for how PVP would work if anyone wants to hear, but that’s essentially a separate topic from my intent with this post.

If this is naive of me, feel free to explain how or why, but be constructive. Thanks for reading.


(The RAbbi) #183

I see/have no problem with the idea, so long as (as you’ve suggested) it’s kept entirely separate from the campaign of BL3 and my progression there. NO loot transfer from one to the other, or at least, no need to go play the BR version to earn some piece of gear (save cosmetics and any gadgets/whatever that don’t affect gameplay).

Add some red-text unique weapon that can only be earned by playing BR? You know that’s perilous. It’ll wind up being the Pimpernel of BL3, and then you’ll have chumps like me who can’t get a Chicken Dinner to save their lives.

Then comes the gray market of paid carries. “Yo, PayPal me $40 and I guarantee I’ll get you a duos win. Full carry. No refunds…” (I have no idea what pricing looks like, but paid Trials of the Nine carries are a thing in Destiny 2 right now; one might think those are the only people playing Trials…)

Six years of Borderlands 2 has taught me that, yes, I can live without the cosmetic swag. I’ve considered throwing a few more bucks at Gearbox for the cash-bought head/skin packs for BL2, but anyhow…

As a completely optional exercise, without which one could still progress and obtain all the top and rare and weird gear, and without which one could still competitively participate in any non-BR activity, I say go for it. Worst case, it doesn’t go anywhere. On the bright side, though, it just may take off and be the next big thing…