Please fix the draft structure. There is an overwhelming advantage to getting second pick. You simply cannot create a scenario where it is not advantageous to have 3 picks in a row, especially with a ban immediately preceding them.
Please change the draft to the one that everyone has been using since the game came out in private matches and tournaments.
This is my first ever experience with a draft, and it does seem pretty imbalanced. what way do other games set up a draft?
@mikem1 they have that one, captains draft. You can only use it in private match though because the captains pick your character and ban who they want. There is no voting structure like with the versus draft (which is pub friendly). If everyone really really wanted captain draft only I bet they would change it but I’m sure there will be other people complaining about having a incompetent captain
Just change the draft order is all. 3 picks in a row is absurd especially when there’s another round of bans right before it that allows you to dictate exactly how the game will go.
@RedX I am not really calling for captains draft in a queue, that would never work for pugs. I am referring to the draft structure. It is currently broken severely.
@Nick_Infidel the way it normally goes, is team 1 bans, team 2 bans, then team 1 bans again, then team 2 bans. Then the picks go as follows: 1-2-2-1-1-2-2-1-1-2.
Now, even with that method, some argued that second pick was a slight advantage in many scenarios. With the current setup, second pick is beyond advantageous. I have played out every possible scenario of bans and first picks that could possibly make first pick better, but it simply never comes close. Especially when team 1 has to commit their last ban prior to seeing team 2’s last ban with one pick right before, and an immediate two picks right after.
Team 1 knows off the bat that they are going to be giving up 3 picks in a row. There is no way to counter that with one pick, regardless of how smart you are about the bans. Your only hope is that the other team has no idea how to draft or compose a team.
I’m going bump this in hopes that the devs leave the subreddit at some point and see this
Maybe i’m just dense or something but wouldn’t the ideal system be
team 1 bans, team 2 bans, then team 1 bans again, then team 2 bans. then the picks go as follows 2 (to compensate for team 1 getting first ban) 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 -1 - 2 - 1 -2 -1
i would even be ok with this. That isn’t the way it typically goes, but I think that would work just fine
I brought up this issue last week to Design, but I’m not sure if they made any decisions as I got back to working on a programming task. I’ve created a ticket for Design to investigate.
Thank you for responding and taking the time to act on our behalf. I have played a great deal of private matches dating back to about a month or two after release. We never once played anything even close to the way the draft is going down. My issue does not stem from unfamiliarity, however. Just having the characters unable to be switched within your team is unfamiliar, but I understand why it is the way it is in a pub. But the order is broken. Anyone picking 60 pct of their team when the other team has only 20 pct is literally unplayable in an even remotely skilled match. We have tossed around every possible scenario trying to find one where first pick ended up favorable, or even comparable to second, but we were unable to create such a scenario
I have an alternative suggestion that might fix the problem. It comes from competitive Diplomacy (the board game), and it’s the best draft system I’ve ever seen.
At the start of Draft, every player secretly selects their top-5 character choices. No one gets to see the other player’s picks. Then have each team ban two characters. If one of your choices was banned, it’s eliminated from the list and everything moves up to close in holes. Then, people with banned picks can fill in the bottom of the list. Once everyone has 5 picks, the computer goes down the list from top to bottom. If you are the only person who picked a BB at slot 1, you get that BB. If there’s a tie, the computer randomly selects who gets the pick. Once all first choices have been resolved, anyone left goes through the same process for their number 2 choice, and it repeats until all players have a BB. In order to keep uniqueness, you’d have the computer combine both teams for resolving the draft.
Since everyone picks at the same time, there’s no advantage to team order. Since you pick BEFORE the bans, there’s no advantage to having the first pick after the first ban. It also encourages both diversity and meta, since you can’t see what the other team is loading, and you’ve always got a mathematical chance to get your favourite choice.
In Diplomacy tournaments, it’s almost unheard of to get anything lower than your third pick, and there are only seven choices. With 30 BB to choose from, I would expect the same outcome (once you factor in the bans).
Gbx should just allow ditto matches in draft. the game is just more balanced when both teams can pick the same character. the roster balance is not good enough to have unique picks across team. I don’t even see why people and developers like unique characters on teams. Overwatch doesn’t do it in their competitive mode. there should be a good reason for it.
Without getting in to what i think OW does well and what it does bad, i’ll keep the focus on Battleborn. All you have to do is look at Chaos Rumble to see why uniqueness turned off can throw the balance for a loop. There are some absolutely broken combinations out there.
He’s talking about team-locking characters, where if team A takes Galilea, team B can’t, etc.
having a legitimate draft adds a layer of depth and skill that nothing else can reproduce. Without a draft, at high levels, you will see the exact same 5-7 characters every single game, if they want to win. But the draft has to be balanced. It doesnt work in a game like overwatch because that game is CoD with abilities. In mobas it works great, gbx just chose to approach it in a way that no other game has in the past that have drafts successfully
Wouldn’t that system make it almost impossible to build a team comp?
Yes it would
even to this day, the helix gamers’ league is trying to put together a tournament across all platforms. They have been trying to put together tournaments for as long as I can remember. Some tournaments have toyed around with the draft only having one ban, banning all gear, and what is now been the very widely accepted formula: no legendary gear at all, with the ban and pick system I have stated above. No one that plays the game competitively has ever had an issue with that system.
I had very, very high hopes that one day there would be a competitive public queue where we could matchmake against other like-minded small groups and full teams of a high skill level that were willing to play the same game that we have been playing. Instead, we have an absolute mess that is worse than quick match. The one positive that comes from this is that people that were completely unfamiliar with a draft can now somewhat have an idea of how one operates, although it is very different from the real kind. At least now they cant expect to hard pick beatrix all night long, because it isn’t going to happen.
Fixing the draft is job number one. Then they need to come to a compromise on the gear. Gbx will have to dig deep on this one and make some very hard choices. There has never been a pvp game that was carried or survived for any reasonable amount of time by casual players. It is ALWAYS the competitive scene that successfully streams, promotes and grows the game. Casual players just come and go. Obviously they buy the game, too, so their opinions matter, but they don’t stay. Give them quick match. But this draft needs to be devoid of legendary gear. It needs to be just like real private and tournament games
Yes, it would. I’m thinking in terms of the PUG scene, where there’s never any team comp to begin with (if I had £1 for every time I’ve been Alani on a team with Thorn, Marquis, Pendles and Deande…). I was under the impression that the serious players do their gaming on the Private servers, for the most part. Given how often I get dropped from the queue on quick match, I just assumed that it’d be impossible to keep a team together for more than one match. Games between two pre-matched teams shouldn’t have any issue with Versus Draft, since they can coordinate and the better players can play more than one toon. Most of the issue with Draft now (IMO) stems from people who will only play one character, and so will quit when “their” BB gets banned or locked before they pick.
I would add and ask… Does connection quality (at least on PC) affect the order of the players of each team?
I’ve been told is random but when playing with a team like 85% I was last place on my team, not fun being the last guy and not being able to play a character I wanted.