Please, for the love of god, don't nerf Ghalt's stun

Battleborn Battleborn General Discussion
#96

I understand the argument that Ghalt will now have to be a team player to secure kills, but when we move the discussion to team play, we then have to ask: what will a Medium Slow Ghalt bring to a team that another CC-lite character doesn’t?

We can already rule out that teams who want a good slower will pick Ghalt for that reason. There’s tons of great slows out there that are either stronger, safer, more versatile, or AE: Montana, Reyna, Marquis, Thorn, just for starters.

But, of course, Ghalt is more than just a slow. The hook lets him pull enemies out of position and into the arms of the team. That puts him up against Shayne and Galilea. Shayne has a far more reliable slow; her kit is more versatile, and she’s tankier, which makes her more dangerous in melee range (especially with her level 3 mutation.) Gali can run Blight Town to get an absurd late-game pull, and nobody can argue that Gali is anything but versatile; you get a disruptor, tank, and DPS all in one. Despite being the hook “specialist,” Ghalt is going to be far from the most disruptive character around - Kelvin will probably wreak more havoc with his restored Sublimate.

I don’t play Ghalt (can’t stand playing Ghalt, actually, the trap style doesn’t suit me at all.). But I know all about playing characters that are tweaked into uncomfortable roles. There’s a difference between a positive vision for a character - we don’t have anyone who does role x, so maybe Ghalt can be reworked to fill that role - and a negative vision - Ghalt’s stun is far too strong, so let’s replace it with a weaker effect.

It’s way too early to say how things will play out. But I’m pessimistic about the balance practices of this game, as we all know, and I’m not embarrassed to put my flag in the camp of those who are worried for Ghalt’s future. It’s not enough for me that Ghalt just be “okay” after the patch; I want to know what he’s still going to do that, unquestionably, no other Battleborn can do better.

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#97

Also note that I write as someone who predominantly plays Meltdown. Meltdown Ghalt and Incursion Ghalt are radically different beasts - on Meltdown, it’s not uncommon to have to hold down a lane solo or with a single team member backing you up.

also note #2: getting caught in a scrap-trap is one of the few ways I ever die on that main of mine, so I am completely arguing against my own interests here :wink:

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#98

your open mindedness is as impressive as ever,

but I can say I had my ghalt spree the day before yesterday. I was playing with a friend who was playing toby, we were on paradise…well my friend accidentally picked the “mines pull in enemies” helix, so I started stacking mines on top of each other…when an enemy would rush me she’d drop a mine to suck them into my traps where she could blast them…

trapping may not be your style but it’s still so satisfying when it’s done right

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#99

I admit I always stay super-close to any Ghalt on my team…I was even scolded on mic in one game for the cardinal sin of “stealing from the trap” :wink:

Probably my feelings about this are shaped by the characters I prefer to play. I’m not afraid of slows, and I already deliberately prey on Ghalt whenever I see one in Meltdown. I never begrudge any Ghalt player who manages to hook-combo me, because I’m damn hard to catch - they earned it. Even when I’m on Ambra, when Ghalt is most frightening for me, I treat it like having a Pendles around: death could strike out of nowhere, so I just have to be extra-careful.

But obviously, Meltdown plays a big role. I don’t think it’s controversial to suggest that Ghalt has never been overpowered in Meltdown…

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#100

honestly the only time’s I’ve managed anything impressive with him were enemies not paying attention…like an Oscar mike running from me and a toby so he ducks into a side passage to run into 4 traps i’d planted beforehand

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#101

Nerfing Ghalt makes him the team tactical player a lot of people here suggest will be challenging and fun…and totally destroys his badass status.

#102

Yeah. Looks like the devs want to make him a tactical team player, but I fear he’ll become too dependant on his team.
As he’s now not only countered by ranged characters, but for example Gal can now stun him after getting trapped.

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#103

or god forbid a rath above level 5(for lifesteal, not even counting his Ulti)

yeah…ghalt isn’t going to 1v1 nearly as well anymore without tons of prep…

#104

But that’s the deal with most characters, right?

I main Boldur too, and I know if I can land a perfect Boldurdash stun I’ll make a lot of damage bursting the crit spot of almost any character and then throwing my axe to prevent escape or to try to get a kill, right? And if I have some friends with me, we possibly can get a kill most of the times, if we DO EVERYTHING RIGHT.

I think that’s the deal. If you can land a perfect combo with your skills you can do a lot of harm, and if you’re with your buddies you probably will get a kill. And thats applies to almost every damage dealer. :slight_smile:

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#105

To the death of the stun!!!

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#106

while we’re nerfing stuns, the mx elite bot stun is ridiculous and almost a guaranteed kill. :stuck_out_tongue: waaaay too long.

#107

That’s the thing; it won’t.

You know how many people escape from slows a game? You know how many people are going to escape when its a slow? Practically everyone. This is because people don’t realize how having a slow vs stun is going to change this characters dps. He will drop to about having only 575ish damage from his skills. He will also lose the double damage on head shots, which was his primary damage source in the first place.

They also don’t realize how disruptive it will be to the game.

#108

For future reference crit hit damage in pvp characters is 1.5. So ghalt loses out on a third of his damage.

#109

So how do you feel about his slow, honestly I agree on the meltdown thing, ghalt actually roams around helping his teammates and even using their skills separately, however I think if the slow is good, it will be making the team leader character, which makes since (also hoping for slug mutation, but only if they balance it greatly

#110

I’m honestly not sure where the slow-trap will shine in Meltdown, if anywhere. None of the Meltdown maps really work well for Ghalt’s hook - the wide lane in Outskirts is his best bet. The others are all choked up with minions, terrain, sunspots, rifts, the usual mess. Traps also tend to get blasted away in the tight lanes, which are usually little corridors of AE death.

I see some Ghalts putting their traps in key Meltdown chokepoints (like the passage from supply beside the first grinder in Coldsnap, or in the tunnels to the basement shard in Outskirts). This is only going to be a minor irritation now, because a slowed character with an escape ability will be able to use it. Certainly not worth giving up a team spot that could have been taken by a wave clear character.

Hard to see what Ghalt’s role in Meltdown will be anymore. Character who are weak without team support tend to struggle more in Meltdown, I find, because it’s common to end up going 1v1, 1v2, or 2v2 in lanes. That’s why Ambra is the ultimate Meltdown support whereas Miko is a bit of a dead weight.

#111

Maybe the trap should cripple them (in case you don’t know, it’s like a silence but only effects leaps and dashes, not sure about teleports) if that could happen it would be very good still (don’t you dare criticize miko, that is only if they just pocket heal, also ambra is overtuned)

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#112

That’s a really good idea with a slow + silence. That would prevent him from being counter cc’ed.

#113

Cripple, stuns that are objects (not a movement from character like lumberjack dash) will not be affected, however if a silence about 2-3 seconds

#114

I like playing Miko offensively/creatively, but you kinda have to work against their helices and skills to do it, and their niche as a support (pocket healing) is relatively ineffectual in Meltdown. It’s all about clearing waves and pushing back players, and Ambra does that in her sleep. :confused:

#115

I’m not sad to see Ghalt’s stun go away. I played Ghalt early on (my first master) because I like shotguns. I used the slugs usually because of the buggy hit detection. After he lost his slugs, he became almost unplayable for me because of his low damage output that could in no way be justified for the high risk inherent with shotguns. The only way to make him a fun character that wasn’t just a one-trick pony was to take away his stun, and buff his damage. Albeit less useful to players who seemingly can’t do anything helpful with him without being able to make his enemies stand still right in front of him for a full 2 seconds.

That said, I’m looking forward to blowing chunks off people with Ghalt without having to cheese them with Ye Olde Stun Trap. Papa shotgun is back in town.

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