Please let me play my character again

All the nerfs so far have been good for the game imo, and haven’t been disruptive to how people play the game. The weapons that were nerfed are all still top-tier, the skills that were nerfed still fundamentally work the same way, all the builds that were affected still work the same, albeit a bit weaker. Even the Hex/Flakker nerf, which was probably the biggest nerf to a single build so far, didn’t really affect the build at all except by making it a bit weaker.

This change to how beam grenades interact with MoD and Vampyr completely upends any Moze build centered around that synergy and forces people using those builds to use different builds, as the mechanics they relied on no longer work. Yes, you can half-replace Hex/Storm Front with Rain Firestorm, and you can somewhat make up for the loss of Vampyr by using a Big Boom Blaster, but the change in ammo return from MoD specifically makes a lot of weapons, particularly heavy weapons, infeasible to use due to their ammo consumption.

I was running a Cryo Hex/Rad Hive build with a Bloodletter, Re-Router and an Ice Breaker Deathless. The ammo and shield return from the Hex was instrumental in that it allowed consistent amping from the Re-Router and near-constant firing of the Hive without ever running out of ammo, and the fact that it came in Cryo meant I could also use it for CC to help the Hive’s missiles track targets and of course to proc the Ice Breaker. It was a strong, flexible build with good sustain and good damage, but even with synergies between every item my Slaughter Shaft clear time was still only ~18 minutes with good modifiers, which is 3+ minutes behind what I’ve seen well-built Amaras and Zanes do. It was super tanky, but not particularly OP imo.

That build is now completely broken. No combination of items can make up for the ammo regen of a beam grenade, so I can no longer use the Hive. No other grenade can make up for the health regen of a beam grenade, so I have to drop the Re-Router for a Big Boom Blaster. Relying on RNG to feed me boosters from the Big Boom Blaster makes the sustain too inconsistent, so I have to drop the Hex for a non-beam grenade that can actually heal me. None of those come in Cryo, so there’s no point using an Ice Breaker Deathless.

This change means I have to throw out every single item in my build except for my Bloodletter mod, items I spent hours upon hours farming for. They are all, every single one of them, useless for Moze now.

It seems to me that if the problem was too much tankiness from Vampyr, and I honestly can’t imagine what else the problem could have been, it would have been much less painful for people using builds based around beam grenades to have simply put some kind of ceiling on how much healing Vampyr can provide, or reduced the healing provided by beam grenades based on how frequently they tick, or something else of that nature that more directly addresses the problem, rather than saying “all these grenades your builds rely on are completely useless with your build.”

I’m fine with my power level being brought down to intended levels, but please, let me play the character I spent dozens of hours building.


You can probably make use of Some for the Road in order to keep spamming the Hive

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That means I have to switch from an SoR/DW build to a BM build, which reinforces my point: I have to change literally my entire build because of this change.


Or you can run a commander com and keep all of your points in SoR/DW

What com and weapons are you using?

I will say one of the biggest complaints about the SoR tree is that it was by far Moze’s best with no real weaknesses. You could have massive shields and healing thanks to Hex/Vampyr/MoD, along with giant bonuses to gun damage. With the nerf, SoR is weakened a bit, for sure, but I still get infinite grenades playing with some points in BM, a Blast Master COM, and an Ogre with 122 rounds thanks to a 40% magazine size artifact, 2 points in Redistribution and MoD, I’m also extremely squishy compared to SoR because I don’t have the massive shields and DR that the SoR tree provides so I rely on those grenades even more for survival. It kinda balances the trees a bit better, though it sucks that it’s an overall nerf for Moze.

Big Boom Blaster alone isn’t reliable enough sustain from my testing, and for an SoR build Bloodletter is really the only other option.

But again, the point isn’t that the build was nerfed, I’d be fine if it was just nerfed. The point is that, mechanically, the build no longer functions, and there isn’t any amount of item substitution I can do to make it function. I have to abandon it and use a completely different build.

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I think the problem is a different one, mainly heavy ammo regen being gimped by a massive 90%. I get that they’re strong, but are they really ten times stronger? Come on now, gbx.
A Bottomless Mags Moze should be able use heavy weapons more.

PS: try the Nagata, OP.
PPS: I know suggesting stuff that isn’t your old build defeats the point, but you might also try transformer+shrieking devil, it’s really stupid.

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Well soon somebody will come in and say:
" Oh its fine this will just increase the build diversity since now you have maybe not one but a half of a build to run somewhat successfully at mayhem 2"

I am just ridiculously frustrated with these “improvements” that just keep chipping away at the fun. Every week they keep taking away and their giving back is in the line of “iron bear now survives two hits in mayhem mode instead of one”.


So you were using a build that tries to take the game and piledriver it so hard that we’d need an archaeologist to find the remains? And you’re surprised that the build has been weakened? Infinite healing, ammo, and constantly amped damage is the first thing to expect on the chopping block. That Moze build (I’ve used it, though I was too lazy to grab a Rerouter) basically trivialized and dumped on mobbing content so hard that it limited what could be done in future content.

I have a Rad Hive with the rad anointment (50% for the next two mags). I cleared several areas on Athena just fine with it. No ammo issues. Couldn’t -mindlessly- spam it, but I killed stuff and survived just fine. My grenade of choice now is the Nagata, which I liked before the change as it requires a small bit of skill (aim + delay) while having decent MoD/Vampyr sustain.

Moze builds ARE in an awkward place. Bloodletter looks very awkward atm. Blastmaster is in an even stranger spot. And we probably have to wait several weeks for some of the “buffs.” This is probably better for the character in the long run, but it’s annoying to deal with atm.


Question is how far to the ground will Moze be piledrived into with nerfs for the “long run”.
I wanted to have fun in a Borderlands game running/gunning/looting and being powerful.

If I wanted to play a bullet sponge cover shooter I would have not bought Borderlands.

I suppose once Moze can barely do just TVHM people will finally maybe start asking for buffs because hey being OP in PvE game is… oh wait that was the fun part, darn.

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I’m currently playing TVHM Mayhem 3 with Moze and doing fine with it. She needs buffs to some aspects but people act like shes the weakest character the game now. Other characters, like Zane, are still worse off.


I thought this was confirmed to be unintentional… they fixed a bug with the quasar, and it messed up how other grenades and weapons work, I gotta find the tweet but they said they are working on a fix

100% correct you are & your post was always gonna be flagged by the whiners. Lol

And it still is just pve…it is not like that build hurts anyone

Did you play Borderlands 2 at OP8/10?



All the updates have done are prove beyond a shadow of a doubt how much better Fl4k and Amara are not only in the devs eyes but in actual gameplay. These “diversity” updates have taken the game from having 3 top tier VH’s with Zane needing a massive amount of love to having 2 top tier VH’s and Moze being stuck in limbo of mediocrity and Zane still being in need of a good amount of love. Can you make Moze and Zane work now? Sorta yea if you min/max your little heart out. Meanwhile Fl4k and Amara are just laughing all the way to the bank facerolling everything because they have synergies/skills that not only work, but out right break the game and that aren’t being nerfed into the ground (nerfed for Fl4k sure, but nothing that doesn’t still make him an absolute monster even at 50% of his power down in modifiers)


Do you get paid to say these things. Play 4 player coop slaughter shaft let’s see how long she will survive now. It is not like we have any sort of build diversity…anyway who the hell would complain about moze in a pve game…these forums are useless…and I am just tired…funny the only class that is not being touched is Amara…and she zips through any content of the game…


Really? I’m one of the first people who called out the bug with DoM earlier and noticed the issues with Hex, I brought up how having to rely solely on Vampyr for sustainability isn’t feasible in the long run if they want to keep nerfing grenades. I just try to take a more rational approach, try to find solutions instead to things instead of throwing a tantrum over it. I’ve never once complained about Moze being too strong, I just said she’s not the worst.

Do I get paid? Get over yourself, dude.


If there is not a problem you don’t need any solutions. Now we have a problem since the New update.with moze build was nothing wrong…only relying on one or two skills is maybe not best way in terms of diversity but it only shows how poorly her skilltrees are designed. Gearbox doing it in the completely wrong way.