Please rework deande!

Battleborn Deande
#40

What I was saying about agility is that apparently the label just means that they have helices that offer increased lateral movement, like Beast of Momentum and her left choice at level 1.

@devjbev
First of all, being able to dash in any direction means you can still dash backwards, how would anyone complain about more choices?

Ik some Deande players who simply prefer the ability to jump backwards while strafing or chasing. I don’t necessarily feel the same way, but if your point is to have more choices, her level 1 helix choice does this very well. It provides two ways of using the skill. Secondly, there are many risky helix choices. Kleese’s that empties your shield, Deande’s that does the same Ambra gives up cooldown for range, etc. Not detrimental, as I hadn’t said that, just that sometimes they don’t work out. And yes, if I had a Deande choose Drain Dash, Ground Zero, and Beast of Momentum, it would feel a lot different than one with slows on EoS, a normal Burst Dash and a shield break. Additionally, she starts with passive lifesteal, so it hits a decent amount. On your next post, you state that some characters don’t need levels or helices to feel good? Have you played Boldur? WE? Attikus? In a lot of cases Ambra? Pre level 4 Orendi? And then you claim that needing to land a skill to deal damage is unfair? How? That’s the entire game.

#41

Nah, she’s faster than Orendi and thorn and almost as fast as pendles cloaked with the accelerator.

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#42

Back on topic! The only thing Deande needs now is a bigger hitbox for her melee. Either that or add FOV sliders. I feel as if deande suffers the most when it comes to melee characters. You barely see her hands and her fans dont have a far reach, and its very linear when it shouldn’t be.

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#43

[quote=“Xelaris96, post:42, topic:1543467, full:true”]The only thing Deande needs now is a bigger hitbox for her melee.
[/quote]

Really? I have no problem hitting and getting crits with her melee. Her reach also seems plenty fine to me, but I tend to play pretty close anyways (the only time I really have a problem is when I’m attempting to melee a Brute in the face when it’s just barely in range, like it is for a lot of BB).

#44

It just feels odd when you make a slicing motion and only hit right in front of you. It’s bad when you don’t have impeccable aim in PVP. In PVE things move slowly. Also, have you tried just buffing attack speed and damage and just critting with fans? It incredibly effective.

#45

[quote=“epicender584, post:44, topic:1543467, full:true”]Also, have you tried just buffing attack speed and damage and just critting with fans? It incredibly effective.
[/quote]

My loadout is a VoZF, VoV, and Bola’s. A metric crapload of crit, attack damage, and attack speed. I also take Deande’s 15% increased melee damage helix every time as well as Calculated Risk and the 15% increase to Burst Dash damage (and I don’t take the AoE helix at level 1). My Deande is a melee cuisinart that can dance in and out of melee while critting enemies in the face for 2k damage with Burst Dash.

My problem is that, even optimized for damage like that, she’s still a pretty mediocre performer, compared to what I can eke out of other characters like pretty much anyone else including support characters.

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#46

With the gear you are rocking, i’m pretty sure you can’t get a 2k hit with burst dash on a crit.

I dont understand why melee characters use VoZF when you could be using stolen edge of arcvynor, it gives definitely more attack speed and MOVEMENT speed which is incredibly significant with melee characters as it can allow you to catch up to the opponent while attacking.

Also, what is your tactic in using Bola’s? The only way I could I would see a way around that is using bust dash then a combo.

Back on topic

Deande needs more movement speed or sprint speed and a slightly bigger hit box would be nice, but isn’t necessary

#47

The speed would definitely be a boon. She should be at least as fast as Ambra (inb4 Ambra’s speed nerfed to be equal to Deande’s).

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#48

Have you tried using comeback king, i believe it explodes for about 140 damage when your shield breaks.

Oh I must have the lower roll of VoZF

I use to think roguelike would work with burst dash, but someone “confirmed” that it didnt proc the 25% as it would only work with melee attacks.

Now what I would have to worry about are opponentsbeing able to run away and I would then go for the 3 sec slow or I try to implement BotB

#49

Deande is my favorite character, second to only Mellka. I have won so many matches with her. I understand why you would want her changed though.

#50

[quote=“ShadowHaven, post:48, topic:1543467, full:true”]
Have you tried using comeback king, i believe it explodes for about 140 damage when your shield breaks.[/quote]

Don’t have one, but I’m not sure it would do all that much since it’s not getting all of the other multipliers. Plus, the whole Burst Dash thing isn’t really a big part of my damage; it’s nice burst, but my bread and butter is straight up melee (hence the attack damage and attack speed).

Wouldn’t really surprised me.

I’m actually pretty glad I don’t PvP (much less PvP with Deande). I’m pretty sure the way I play Deande would be entirely wrong (I prefer to use Alani and Galilea who do best in PvP exactly the way that I play them).

#51

Strange…mine never decays. I’ve tested this before.

#52

Yeah, I just ran an incursion match and I just went up to a thrall and got my 5 crit hits then walked away. I definitely noticed a dramatic attack speed change and it didnt seem to decay

1 Like
#53

I dont think they ever decay. Same applies with VoV.

#54

I dont like her new uppercut! Is slow, hard to land and drops your speed also you dont get the extra dmg or life steal. I tried to use it againts a party of supporters but in the end it didnt help actually my dmg was awfull.

Ground zero has an awfull lock animation just like her ult! Long set up, stationary, dmg splits and long animation lock (once with wft i stabed deande’s face and killed her).

Was burst dash created to weak a target to directly engage? -30% dmg dosent help to finish a target but a silence, slow will.

#55

She has access to a slow, and I think they just wanted to give her something super unique.

#56

While I agree that Deande needs work, I just wanted to comment on this.

First, Battleborn don’t really need to be spectacular at PvE. I have soloed on Advanced with Deande as well as others like Miko, Reyna, and such - and when I play Deande, she clears the stage faster than some of the other Battleborn.

Second, and please don’t take this in a negative way - it isn’t meant as such - but Deande’s cloak should be used to kill Battleborn because she’s an Assassin, not run away unless it’s up and you have no choice. This works really well 1v1 - use Holotwin to position yourself around a corner or at least out of sight. Uncloak. You’ll need to be uncloaked for a bit before engaging, depending on helix and item choices - this just takes practice. Now, when Holotwin’s cooldown is, say, 6-8 seconds, come from your hiding spot and attack an enemy from behind. Unload all your damage, if getting low on health use Holotwin. Now - if you’ve done a good bit of damage, many Battleborn will retreat for healing and/or just stand there with low health after the Holotwin dies because they think the danger’s over. Instead of using Holotwin to retreat, use it to run behind the character maybe 20-30 feet and wait. Depending on whether the enemy remains or runs back to the safety of your base, position yourself behind them, and unload again. If you have cooldown reduction items and the correct helix choices, you can often use Holotwin to both initiate and then … re-initiate :slight_smile: It requires very good timing, a lot of sneakery, and a good map sense to time the cooldowns. It helps if you attack squishy and/or already damaged Battleborn. She is definitely an advanced character.

I’d recommend lots of shield items, too, and taking the Helix that applies 50% of her shield to Burst Dash. It does indeed make you squishy, but Deande is all about damage as quickly as absolutely possible and good positioning. I also think a lot of people get stuck on Deande’s thrown fan Helixes. Essentially, you want to use thrown fans to participate in minion killing from a safe distance or, very rarely, to finish someone who is running with 10 health. People who ignore her Melee and Stealth helixes are gonna have a heck of a time killing anyone. 60-80 thrown war fan damage won’t cut it.

My problem with Deande is that she’s very weak against a good team that sticks together at all times and makes it very unlikely to find 1-on-1 scenarios in remote locations - but this goes for a lot of assassin characters.

Personally, I think you can fix Deande in one move - make her Ultimate an instant cast instead of having a warm-up, or, at the least, a severely reduced warm-up. You’d come from behind, do damage, and finish with the Ultimate - like Rath, only … not quite … because Dreadwind on a good Rath is just crazytown :dizzy_face: Remember - she’s basically invulnerable once her Ultimate has started. If you don’t split the Ult to 3-4 Battleborn / Minions / etc. you can unload from almost complete safety … once the warm-up is up, of course.

Good luck!

#57

your post actually helped me understand deande better, thank you very much!

#58

@trevordmoore

Personally, I think you can fix Deande in one move - make her Ultimate an instant cast instead of having a warm-up, or, at the least, a severely reduced warm-up. You’d come from behind, do damage, and finish with the Ultimate - like Rath, only … not quite … because Dreadwind on a good Rath is just crazytown. Remember - she’s basically invulnerable once her Ultimate has started. If you don’t split the Ult to 3-4 Battleborn / Minions / etc. you can unload from almost complete safety … once the warm-up is up, of course.

I would like to clarify for the previous poster, that Deande is quite vulnerable throughout the duration of the entire ultimate attack. She can be damaged (and killed) while attacking an enemy (during the ult after the warm-up) and can even be CCed while attacking as well (during the ult after the warm-up).

As I have mentioned in a previous thread, reducing the startup of the ult may cause some balance issues (especially if removed completely), due to how effective the attack can be (although it is difficult to use).

The only relatively fair changes (regarding Deande) that I have seen mentioned on these forums have been the following:

  1. Addressing Deande’s vulnerability throughout the Ult attack, and her self stun after the ult. Of these two specific weaknesses, I would consider the vulnerability throughout the attack to be most important to address, as it is more viable to account for the self stun weakness as opposed to the vulnerability throughout the attack.

  2. Addressing Deande’s movement speed.

If I were to address Deande’s movement speed I would look into doing the following:

  1. Increase base movement speed by 5% or increase base sprint speed by 10%.

  2. Redesign the Beast of Momentum mutation helix option: The mutation will grant a 20% movement speed buff instead of 10%, although the duration will be unchanged (5 seconds). Furthermore, instead of receiving the buff by killing an enemy, Deande would receive 4% movement speed per normal hit (capping at 20%). I think it would be quite fitting for a helix option named “Beast of Momentum” to build up incrementally as momentum would suggest.

  3. Make the Beast of Momentum helix option no longer conflict with her slow. I think this could best be done by either swapping the level 5 helix options (not including the mutation) with the level 2 helix options, or by moving the Beast of Momentum mutation down to the level 2 helix options. All of the other assassin characters (even the large majority of characters in general) have CC in their kit either by default or by level 2, so I think it would be more appropriate to swap the level 2 and level 5 helixes (not including the mutation.)

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#59

I agree with the changes above, especially around her movement speed and Beast of Momentum which I think is very lacking right now.
I’d like to suggest that at the same tier, her 5R helix, Roguelike could use a boost especially when compared to Pendles’s 3R helix Backstab. Both increase their user’s melee attacks to an enemies back by 25%, the difference is that Deande’s is only in affect for 3 seconds after leaving stealth, while Pendle’s is active all the time.

I think that Deande’s helix should drop to a 15% increase to melee strikes against her enemies back, but be active all the time just like Pendles’s. I think dropping the damage amp to 15% for Roguelike vs. 25% for Backstab balances the fact that Deande gets her passive 25% bonus while attacking from stealth, while Pendles has no such innate damage bonus.