#102

Given the hotfix isn’t, as far as I’m aware, live yet, you’re making theoretical claims here.

Has anyone actually tested the pet physics knocking the player around less? That could be huge for mobbing, because there’s nothing more annoying than an AI-controlled pet that bumps you around.

1 Like
#103

Lol I play with FL4K. The pet pushing you around is annoying for NPC’s and trying to do things outside of battle. I’ve never had an issue with the pet pushing me in battle because it’s usually dead after 5 seconds in mayhem 3. And when the pet is alive it is usually far away from me.

#104

I know you play with FL4K, but I’m kinda saying “don’t knock things you haven’t tried”. That’s my entire point.

It’s a shame to hear that change is less impactful than I wanted it to be, but I just like highlighting changes like that because folks always seem to read them less than numbers going up or down (what people typically call balance changes). I come from an RTS background (originally, mostly ARPGs and shooters these days) where unit timings, turn rates and animations are incredibly important.

#105

I just saw where theres an update that fixes Fl4ks pets pushing you around haha

#106

For the love of games gear box stop nerfing and start buffing the game needs to be balanced towards tvh m3 iron bear needs love so do slot of characters why didn’t you guys balance the game before release

1 Like
#108

As a Moze player I am 100% behind the fix. This tirade as apparently it’s some super genius smart discovery makes me laugh, it was literally obvious thing that fell right into peoples’ laps.

The nerf itself, IMO, is super lenient, because even with 2 seconds CD on MoD it will still make Moze spam grenades out the wazoo and Hex would still be the tool for the job because it will trigger that almost immediately on CD. It’s just that it won’t be insanely broken, because at least now you might need to pace grenades a bit and shoot guns a bit more and maybe not be completely invulnerable 100% of the time, but only 50%.

I, personally, had exactly same nerf in mind (because every reasonable person seen nerf coming), but I had that at 5 seconds, so I’m pleasantly surprised.

And for crying out loud, stop making it sound as if Moze will struggle or something - this build will remain a thing and will still wreck. Buffs to Iron Bear and less used stuff will come too.

2 Likes
#109

This is my main issue with the nerfs at this point in the game. People are having fun with them. Why not let them have fun? At least until you get some of the bigger issues sorted out and get some of the other builds brought to a point where they’re more viable and fun to use.

Right now, people are getting discouraged because they see the fun things that they do have being removed while other options aren’t available to an adequate degree. I think most would agree that flaks boss melting was a bit over the top. But when you strip that and there isn’t another real viable option for him, it just doesn’t leave the players feeling very good. People can and do deal with nerfs and balancing. But it is a lot easier to accept it when it comes but there are other solid options for them to try out.

People aren’t not running pet builds because the crit build is too good. They’re not running pet builds because they are too bad. That is a big distinction.

From an objective standpoint though, people will respond a lot better to the fixes when it feels like you’re making the other builds substantially more viable and not just making the fun builds that work right now worse

Bring the other builds up to be closer to the powerful ones. Don’t slash to powerful builds down so they’re no longer fun. It’s all about fun. Make it so a build can be fun and reasonably effective, and people will use it even if it isn’t the most powerful option available.

5 Likes
#110

Flipside is that this is exactly the time for changes before people end up WAY too invested into specific character because it had some completely broken combo and they did not know better thinking it would stay that way.

I mean, Infinite Grenade spam Moze build was obviously broken and was meant to be toned down, not sure what’s the QQ there. If anything people should be glad it is not nerfed TOO hard, why I’d say it’s a lenient nerf there.

#111

This is where I’ll agree with you. The nerf hasn’t really hurt Moze that bad.

But I also agree with @Argyle_Gargoyle in regards to the whole “removing the few playable features while giving us nothing else to do”

1 Like
#112

I want to say one last thing about the rakks… to me this always felt like a joke right from the first second… right after we first saw the skill tree… I thought who in there right mind would EVER use the rakks?
if you gave me a FIFTEEN SECOND invisability that make me INSTA GIP everyone… why WHY would I want to use something else… it is obvious that this is the most insane and broken skill ever… maybe even more so than salvador…
but yet… I was okay with it… because it was FUN!
and just because there are 100 bilion videos (approximately the same numbers as guns in this game) of fl4ks killing bosses fast… that has nothing to do with casual gameplay… where fl4k actually isn’t even one of the stronger classes in general… maybe even the weakest or second weakest…

dont nerf stuff just because someone abuses it… make the underused stuff better! status on rakks does not help that… give it more utility or just flat out buff its raw output and numbers…

3 Likes
#113

They buffed Rakk Attack my dude.

As for the the PvE argument. Doom had the BFG, which exploded entire rooms of enemies. But they “nerfed” it by giving it limited ammo. This way, players used the various other weapons in that game instead of blowing everything up with the BFG, and Doom is remembered as a classic to this day.

I have a similar story about Skyrim: I crafted myself a set of gear that let me use Destruction spells at no cost, equipped a hitscan lightning spell that did massive damage and basically oneshot everything (it was supposed to be offset by a high mana cost), and wouldn’t you know it, I got pretty bored of Skyrim after that. I’m not the only one with a story like that either, I’ve heard them from Oblivion and Morrowind too, where you could make custom spells that nuked entire cities.

#114

@Gaidax its not even a fix, its a pisspoor bandaid…

#115

They buffed the status effect chance… not a huge change.

In regards to Skyrim, same thing as here, you have the choice as to how you play. You chose to craft a game breaking set. Nobody forced you to. You wanted to play the game that way and it ended up being boring. You could’ve taken off the set and played a different style. You didn’t want to. Don’t blame the game for your decisions as to how to play it

3 Likes
#116

I got flagged just because i asked people to stop posting nerfthreads. Its a weird forum here, really. Besides yes the op is completely right.

#117

Fair enough I guess. Haven’t seen how it works with cryo Rakk, though I doubt it instantly freezes enemies.

#118

Peeps can you even smell whats coming for Amara , everything thats viable - poof in the next 2 weeks.Then we can all happily return after the DLCs are out.

2 Likes
#119

I love this sentence SO much!
we need to smash this on their office door immediatly…
this deserves a medal and a podium… an altar even…
are people (not only gearbox) really not seeing this logic?

6 Likes
#120

Same with iron bear…

3 Likes
#121

I’ve seen people reference Amara getting nerfed in the near future and I’m not sure I know what people are even referencing?

If it’s the phasezerker class mod trick with Do Harm stacking up to 99, that’s more of a bug/exploit than anything else.

#122

I don’t think anyone is entirely opposed the removing broken things. But I would also contend that even if broken, mozes grenades were not ruining people’s fun

I think one of the main sticking points right now that a lot of people have is that there are quite a lot of serious technical issues that ARE ruinng peoples fun.

Imo they’d be better off leaving the fun if broken stuff alone for now so long as people enjoy it while they sort out the game ruining stuff.

The optics of do not come off well at all to players. The game has serious technical issues but there is no mention of that in the fixes. Not even a “we’re working on it”. But there have been plenty of changes to this point that have diminished the fun players were having. That just doesn’t look good and it is causing people to get discouraged.

This is borderlands. The players are resilient. GBX will nerf something and people will move on and find the next thing that’s even more broken OP.

People can deal with broken powerful things being fixed. But it doesn’t sit nearly as well when there are so many other things that should be working that aren’t.

1 Like