Political Discussion Thread II

Ummm…I did? sounds like you’re alluding to Trump, no?

Sworn affidavits are not actual evidence in a court of law. And some of the sworn affidavits we’ve read about have either been retracted, or demonstrated IN COURT OF LAW to have been wrong (either a complete misunderstanding of how the election process works, a complete misinterpretation of what folks were seeing, or a misrepresentation of events contradicted by the sworn affidavits of others who were there at the time.)

Yes, but not the way you thought.


5 Likes

Is there another that alleges actual voter fraud apart from the recanted one from that PR group that got someone to sign it?

Traditionally an investigation requires some degree of evidence, but I’d still be more comfortable with that than this mess. This isn’t an investigation, it’s dozens (possibly hundreds now) of frivolous lawsuits being thrown out of court.

Or perhaps more accurately, this is a PR stunt. A horrifyingly successful PR stunt, that is hurting the nation in ways that’ll take years or decades to heal. There’s no path left for what Trump is doing to deliver him the presidency, but he’s still doing it.

If this was actually looking to fix our electoral system I’d approve of it, but that doesn’t involve going into the media and telling people sacks of lies, or your own lawyers resigning due to the attacks on the nation.

6 Likes

That ^ pretty much covers it. Not US centrist or left-leaning media. And not a sensationalist click-bait site either.

4 Likes

Whoa, VH getting loud up in here. :flushed:

Yelling again…geesh! :roll_eyes:
I’m totally messing with you VH. I love and respect you. Never forget that. But, I’ll respectfully disagree with you.

According to to Guiliani’s press conference, he had several sworn affidavits. Most of which are submitted to the courts, not the press. He actually stated that the press’ job, is to research this, which they could have done and found such affidavits. He pointed out that their hatred for the president has compromised their integrity. I agree with that remark.

…A force that will stop at nothing, to get rid of Trump.

I’ll combat your remark with the Michigan ■■■■■■■■. The herrassing and making death threats to 2 normal people like you and me. They just happend to have the job of certifying the election in their state. They saw questionable actions and therefore held back, but were pressured by the left to confirm. - that is very murky indeed. :innocent: more, sinister than Murky, but I’m sure you get where I’m coming from.

1 Like

And I am going to disagree with your interpretation. This is one of the counter-affidavit situations: the rest of the committee dispute the claims of these two as to what happened during that meeting. And the claims of questionable actions in MI have already been widely debunked by multiple sources.

Did these two get death threats? Possibly - I wouldn’t know. Lots of other election officials are reporting multiple death threats. Those are mostly people claiming there was no fraud getting the threats BTW.

But their claims about the election and the committee simply haven’t held up to scrutiny.

3 Likes

So, you dismiss the 2 for the majority? Even if the majority is wrong? We’re not talking about the congress or the house here. Where majority wins. We are talking about possible fraud, and “cheating the election”. Where 2 individuals saw something suspicious and are condemned and publicly threatened for it. That’s wrong. I would hope you’d see that as wrong too? Violence isn’t the answer. Even if its just verbal.

How do you know they are wrong though? This is two groups of people giving differing accounts of the exact same event. If the majority say A and the minority say B, then honestly I’m going with A. And if these two truly believed that there was a problem, why did they agree with the certification in the first place and only change their story afterwards?

3 Likes

I stated above why. They were harassed and threatened. Death threats over an election, seriously?! My family isn’t worth an election. My livelyhood, isn’t worth Biden or Trump. Lets be real here. Would you put your life on the line for a vote confirmation? That is what it came to, for these two individuals. I saw some of the vitriol from various media outlets. From the visuals I got, it was a lot of talk show and radio show peeps hating on them for holding the confirmation back. It was so feverishly executed that it took 2 hours for them to fold. They were intimidated to put it lightly. and the Governor of MI publicly complimented what she called, “activists” for their efforts. I find that despicable, imo.

I was under the distinct impression that the threats came only AFTER they filed their affidavits and the news that Trump had spoken to them personally came out. Are you saying they were threatened and harassed by other members of the committee during the meeting?

Just checking for myself. First hit is this:

This information quoted is something I do remember reading earlier though.

MI state election law stipulates that an audit is conducted following certification as a matter of course. So ironically delaying certification would actually have meant delaying the audit which would have been conducted regardless of whether concerns had been raised with the conduct of the vote or ballot counting.

So on an administrative level, it seems that the root cause is not that there was anything suspicious going on with the vote and ballot counting - that seems all above board (and the claimed issues with the Wayne County votes have been widely addressed multiple times already).

That article links to an earlier one that is more disturbing on a human level though. I had missed that there is a public comment period where the members of the committee are basically in full view of members of the public:

And there we have it. Yikes. Given the history of racial tension in Detroit, along with the events of this year, I can’t say I’m overly surprised that emotions ran high.

5 Likes

Some nobody suggested naming the coronavirus vaccine “The Trump”. Makes you wonder if it’s genuine vaccine…or some ambiguous fluid.

At the moment, it would be more apt to give that name to a desinfectant that doesn’t work or to make “trumping” a word for putting family members into government jobs.

But right now, all of America is shown exactly what 'trumped-up charges" are. Worthless lawsuits based on just proclaiming something without a shred of evidence or even a loose connection to reality.

Even more sad, “trumping” currently seems to be a description for watching OANN and playing golf while people die needlessly.

5 Likes

That article covers most of the remaining issues as well. EG it confirms that by law, a Michigan audit cannot take place until the results of have been certified.

And:

More death threats against election officials for doing their job. Most of which appear to come from Trump supporters upset at the outcome. And Trump officials aren’t helping:

OANN is also in on the act:

And yes, the second amendment is being waved around in these threats, along with accusation of treason and mentions of firing squads.

All aimed at people who simply counted legally valid ballots, exactly as they did 4 years ago.

6 Likes

I love the flurry of activity here during the season. But now we’ve got ourselves into the groundhog day loop that runs as follows-

Trump tweets that he won.

Many people point out that is not the case.

Another state certifies.

Another recount/audit starts.

Another state completes it’s recount/audit and confirms.

Another lawsuit opens.

3 lawsuits get thrown out.

Somehow I feel this is our purgatory until Jan 6th.

5 Likes

To be fair, I think certification has a due date in early/mid December, but… you’re not entirely wrong as far as I can tell.

2 Likes

Yeah but the electors don’t chime in until the 6th.

Transition is going to be ■■■■■■ if we’re still boned up on all this by then, but being Trump is a hell of a drunk so I don’t know why we’d expect anything less.

I’m looking for a lot of GOP support to evaporate once the run offs in GA are done, but time will tell.

2 Likes

I think you’re being both pessimistic and optimistic here. A lot of GOP ‘support’ amounts to keeping their mouth shut to avoid offending Trump, meaning it’s unlikely to change materially much at this point. Further, the transition is already boned up for logistical reasons due to Trump officials refusing to execute their duty, and is already causing problems.

On the other hand, there’s nothing Trump can reasonably do at this point to stop things, and we’re near the point at which there won’t even be anything to lodge faux lawsuits for since the certifications will be done.

4 Likes

Dayum - Carl Bernstein named names of enablers, no ■■■■■ given. :facepunch:

4 Likes

BREAKING NEWS: Live feed of rational long-time republicans trying to talk sense into The Angry Orange Oompa Loompa.

Dont

5 Likes