Political Discussion Thread II

I wouldn’t even try to predict 2022.

If there’s something true in politics it’s that.
In the current partisanship state in the U.S. I’d dare say they don’t even have a noticeable short term effect.


Frankly, my prediction quote sucks in a major fashion

True, but to compare Saint Cruz with the wicked time-traveling witch of Ocasio-Cortez shouldn’t be done. That one is so evil that her Green New Deal hit Texas before it was even implemented :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Though one of both parties is definitely more socialist than the other. As could be seen 2008, for example, when the Republicans went and realised:

“socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the rest”

and went to show that:

“In a banana republic, the members of the national legislature will be (a) largely for sale and (b) consulted only for ceremonial and rubber-stamp purposes some time after all the truly important decisions have already been made elsewhere.”

Quotes from and old Christopher Hitchens article:

Out of respect for Hitchens, I shall no longer call the ‘conservatives’ Trumpublicans’. The description ‘Banana Republicans’ is actually better:

Another feature of a banana republic is the tendency for tribal and cultish elements to flourish at the expense of reason and good order.



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I think, from what I’ve read, that Russian domestic and foreign policy is primarily driven by demographics. Ethnic Russians are dwindling and they’d like to acquire moar. There’s a lot of ethnic Rooskies outside their borders. Also, paranoia has always been a Russian staple. Can’t imagine the expansion of NATO has softened that belief.



Next headlines of the Washington Times:







So, dear Banana Republicans, let’s move on and look at the really worst scandals in presidential history:

Umbrellagate, Flag Pin Gate, Jacketgate and many more.

Edit: On a more serious note, then why were they in the Capitol? For sightseeing, maybe?

And was America Great on that day?


Did I miss a post and/or did someone delete a missive from the Times of Washington? -confusion-

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I think he’s still on about the insurrection. Which… my god… really says a lot about my own mindset where I’m like “Oh, that armed attack on our actual heart of government, that was like a year ago, the alt right is garbage, who cares?”

But I mean, in any other spectrum itd still be huge news.

As for today… im backing farming on my diablo 2 sorc because apparently NO ONE HAS EVER ■■■■■■■ HEARD OF A ■■■■■■■ 4 SLOT SHIELD!

@TemetNosce Is maybe the only one who knows my rage here, but there’s a gif that’s appo


Yep, I am still trying to get a reaction on the insurrection from the local ‘Whatabout Biden’ faction.

I know it’s a waste of time, but since even McConnell had some clear words on that, it’s obviously possible. Unless one channels Cruz or Hawley, that is :man_shrugging:


Dude, it’s like a sore on the inside of your mouth. The more attention you pay it, the more painful it is.

We still have fine upstanding folk like @MickityMike , who’s thoughts I hate, but love talking about, but who also don’t spam ■■■■■■■■ vids and a billion emojis when they make a point.

If you ignore it enough they’ll call us a leftist pansexual coven and leave us alone.

I mean, he’s not wrong. If I have my first pick of cuddle puddle partners, it’s probably @Benedict_87 … and @Piemanlee watches… preferably eating a cake - not a pie.

That makes it dirtier.

:money_mouth_face: :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: :sleepy: :pensive: :zipper_mouth_face: :face_with_raised_eyebrow: :yum: :yum: :yum: :woozy_face: :woozy_face: :woozy_face: :yum: :hot_face: :hot_face: :hot_face: :sob: :sob: :hushed: :cowboy_hat_face: :exploding_head:



On topic:


I think, very generally, it’s a bad idea to refer to it as an insurrection. At least that is, from the mouths of politicians. The article I posted from that horrible leftist Greenwald (hey, even a stopped clock amirite?) lays out why that’d be bad. Has to do with the wiiiiide expanse of legal - yet morally questionable - powers the president has during an insurrection.

Let’s just call it a ■■■■■■■ riot. Cause that’s what it was, no? At least let’s be fair about it: why is the antifa assault on a Portland federal courthouse a ‘mostly peaceful protest’ but a few hundred Trumpers invading the Capitol an insurrection? Yes, one building is more important than the other, but they are both branches of the federal government. There were thousands of people at the Capitol riot, the vast majority of whom did not invade Congress. It’s curious that they are termed differently.

Also, if you want me to be reeeeeal honest… ■■■■ Congress. :man_shrugging:t3:

Since we should have equally opportunity by political affiliation when lambasting politicians for hypocrisy, here’s another contender:

And now he’s actively lobbying to be appointed as head of NASA. Which, given his championship of the massive boondoggle that is the Shelby Lunch System (SLS) and strong opposition to the commercial crew program, would be a Really Bad Idea™. He’s another in a long line of pork barrel politicians who seem to view the space program as nothing more than a taxpayer subsidized make-work program for their constituents.

I really hope Biden listens to the scientists - and not the shills - on this one.


I’m not sure I’d call Greenwald a leftist? I mean we’re talking about a man who spent Trump’s time in office defending Russia and writing Republican PR. Even originally he was more of a hater of the two party system, which I actually did admire back when he did work on it and Snowden. Now though he’s one who’s gone off the deep end in the Trump era and been not just wrong, but offensively, arguably even intentionally so (to the extent I have trouble buying his sincerity given I don’t even recall him apologizing for years of misinformation).

Regardless, while you’re not wrong on the point about naming, calling it a riot helps the already abhorrent whitewashing of a terrorist plot. As for the Portland comparison, it’s media driven nonsense. Yeah though the people who didn’t know what they were doing/didn’t participate are obviously not equivalent - or the reverse.


Saw a good quote on that today from Garland’s testimony to the Senate Committee, when he was asked by Josh Hawley to comment on exactly that comparison:

(From here - and @MickityMike will be displeased to know that the Grauniad didn’t get his memo on the fire extinguisher thing)

Apparently, “Flyin’ Ted Cruz” is a meme now. So it seems a good time to post a video (Shock! Horror!) with lots of eminently quotable quotes:



Actually, I wrote someplace above that the people demonstrating on the National Mall were exercising their 1st amendment right and I have yet to read someone disputing that. So yes, there is a huge difference between the thousands demonstrating outside and the

I’ll give you that.

But regarding the latter ones,

is not something I wish to participate in. Trying to overturn a democratic election by shock tactics and threat is neither a joke nor the same as


Terrorist plot? Are we REALLY sure it’s a Good Idea to toss that label around? I mean… the Mideast and Afghanistan are going great and all, but… Although, that guy dressed in Buffalo horns for sure freaked me the ■■■■ out. :flushed:

Sarcasm aside, it’s a stretch to call that a terrorist plot. I find it distressing that so many of my fellow citizens disagree.

EDIT: Greenwald, Republican PR?! Zzzt. Wot. He was skeptical and critical of the Russia investigation… like any good citizen ought to be. Aren’t we all critical and skeptical of the US gubmint? (I know I am.) He expressed concern for the increasingly anti-Russian rhetoric from the Democrats. Why? Because historically that HAS NOT GONE WELL. He also noted the hypocrisy on display when one remembers how Mittens was roundly mocked - deservedly so - for claiming Ivan was our biggest national security threat in 2012.

But you’re right about leftist (although he’s got a few silly commie views -looks at Curm-). He’s more accurately labeled a contrarian me thinks. …which might be why I have a grudging affection for him.

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I’ll grant you all that attacking a United States courthouse at night is not exactly the same as Congress while they’re all together and - MIRACULOUSLY enough - not pissing my money away or sending our people to die in never-ending foreign wars… what? Sorry I lost track.

Of course it’s not the same. I’m noting the disparity in reaction. To say that the court’s activities weren’t disrupted is a silly lie politicians tell. What, you think business went about as normal after and during that? You’ll notice I pointed out that one was mostly peaceful, while the other is a dangerous insurrection. My question is very simply this: wtf is wrong with everyone?

My advice for my fellow countrymen is that we stop demonizing each other. Very recently, certainly within the last few months, I’ve laughed at the idea of a ‘civil war’ in the US. I’m not laughing anymore. Dangerous rhetoric is dangerous. This poor speech must be countered with better speech. Which is what daddy is doing. (That’s me… I’m daddy.) :wink:


If a premeditated plot to assault the federal legislature in an attempt to overturn an election is not terrorism, well… Kind of drawing a blank on what would be. To be fair I suppose, disturbingly enough despite agreeing with you on the implications from an imperial presidency perspective, calling this an insurrection is probably the most accurate. The honest truth though is we probably should be disturbed by this, and sidestepping what happened isn’t going to help.

Yes though, I’ve mentioned it previously, but what we’re seeing mirrors the rise of authoritarianism elsewhere. The unfortunate reality is that once you’ve created an entire system based on driving up hate to the extent that people have trouble thinking of the other side as legitimate parts of democracy, stopping is no longer as simple as not continuing to feed it.

Frankly the most optimistic thing I’ve seen about on stepping back from the edge of political violence is the beginning of actual opposition inside the Republican party, intra-group disagreement is one of the few effective ways to kill this kind of idea. And despite what people may say, the number of senators voting against Trump was significant - not for the impeachment, but for what it said about the party. We’ll see though, things are too in flux now to really say much.

At this point I don’t see any short term end to this, but honestly? If Republicans wind up with the pro-democracy group prevailing, it would at least step back from the more disturbing aspects. Frankly there’s a difference between partisanship (bad), and thinking the other party can’t legitimately be allowed to win (much, much worse). In plainer terms, in the relatively less bad situation we at least might see a reduction in the violence and people claiming fraud with no evidence.

On a more optimistic note, the last decade has at least seen a vast improvement in marijuana law on a state level. I’d been reminiscing on how fast this occurred (at least in terms of political history).


Ha, well we at least agree on the pot thing. I used to be a regular poster on a pro-pot discussion board. Oddly enough, I was one of the only conservatives/libertarians there, too. Weird. :grimacing: (Ha, a LOT of them on that board were suspicious of me. Some wanted me banned cause I didn’t agree with most of their politics, and a few argued to moderators on their special ‘moderator forum’ that I was a gubmint informant! :laughing: Who says weed makes you paranoid?!)

Anyhoo, the point is how amazingly fast that particular tide has turned. Which is undoubtedly good.

But the Capitol riot was no more a terrorist plot than numerous antifa riots were terrorist plots. It’s an extraordinarily bad idea to label either as such. It’s also extraordinarily bad to demand domestic counter-terror legislation to ‘fight’ either group. Of course you’ll have Republicans refusing to condemn the Trumpers just as you have some Democrats refusing to condemn antifa: they are both groups of ‘useful idiots.’


On free speech:

“ The movement crested this week with a letter from California House Democrats Anna Eshoo and Jerry McNerney, written to the CEOs of cable providers like Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Cox, and Dish. They demanded to know if those providers are “planning to continue carrying Fox News, Newsmax, and OANN… beyond any contract renewal date” and “if so, why?”

The news comes in advance of Wednesday’s House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on “traditional media’s role in promoting disinformation and extremism.”

This sequence of events is ominous because a similar matched set of hearings and interrogations back in 2017 — when Senators like Mazie Hirono at a Judiciary Committee hearing demanded that platforms like Google and Facebook come up with a “mission statement” to prevent the “foment of discord” — accelerated the “content moderation” movement that now sees those same platforms regularly act as de facto political censors.

Sequences like this — government “requests” of speech reduction, made to companies subject to federal regulation — make the content moderation decisions of private firms a serious First Amendment issue. Censorship advocates may think this is purely a private affair, in which the only speech rights that matter are those of companies like Twitter and Google, but any honest person should be able to see this for what it is. . . .

Press freedoms have been in steep decline for a while. Barack Obama’s record targeting of whistleblower sources (and in some cases, journalists themselves) using the Espionage Act was a first serious sign, followed by Donald Trump’s prosecution of Julian Assange. We progressed to a particularly dangerous new stage in recent years, with oligopolistic tech companies, urged on by politicians, engaging in anticompetitive agreements to suppress political voices on both the left and the right.

The so-called media reporters at major organizations like CNN and the New York Times have mostly either been silent or have played cheerleading roles during the most eyebrow-raising recent developments: the decision by Facebook and Twitter to block access to a pre-election New York Post story about Hunter Biden, the stunning exercise in monopoly influence by Amazon and Apple in swallowing up the “free speech” platform Parler, the banning of Socialist Worker Party accounts in England and the U.S., and the shutdown of livestream capability by alternative media outlets (and the removal of celebrated footage shot from the Capitol riot by people like Status Coup videographer Jon Farina), a story that amazingly only got major play at… Fox News.”

Some will read this and shrug: tough cookies they’ll say. Me? I say: ‘I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it with my life.’