Even further than that, we need to vote for outright change. The movement to do things like switch away from first past the post, and to implement jungle primaries at the state level is helpful, but we need to go farther. Yeah though, the system is terrible.
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I am very curious to see how this works out.
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Tricky, but if the police there have been behaving like the allegations in this article, I’m not sure what alternatives exist?
Deliberately preventing protesters leaving an area before curfew by kettling them, then arresting them for being out after curfew? Can we say ‘abuse of power’? Yes, I thought so.
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To be clear, that wasn’t sarcastic and I’m not against it. If the current system isn’t working as intended I believe it’s time to sort out alternatives. An anecdote for yous guys (how’s that for typing in a NY accent?): when I was a young yeti (1997ish) I was running ceremony certification for the Order of the Arrow here in NYC. I gave a ride home to one of my peeps, and on the way home was pulled over. I was wearing my full Scout uniform. The officers approached my window, asked what I was doing so far from home (barely the other side of Queens), and then started to ask what they would find if they searched my car. “Drugs, guns, stolen goods?” When I offered to get out and let them search they pointed their guns at me and started shouting. Not gonna say they did wrong, but 17 year old me soiled my shorts. If there is an alternative where neither they nor the people they “protect and serve” need to feel that way I am all for finding it. Also, I saw a couple of articles that showed violent crime decreased with a lessening of aggressive police practices. If it’s not working the way it’s intended then I think it behooves us to try something new.
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Now the imbecile-in-chief can point out that oh so many protesters are breaking the law. And his followers of less than stellar intelligence will eat it up.
I think Karl Rove already stated that the Reps aren’t interested in the reality-based community when Bush the 2nd was in office. They still aren’t. They want the fundamentalists that believe whatever the orange man tells them, no matter how far from reality that may be.
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I read a comment regarding the protests over the weekend that police had been instructed to dial back their tactics and be less confrontational. Coverage from the weekend seems to indicate that the protests were predominantly peaceful with only a few minor scuffles in specific areas.
I wonder how Faux News is spinning that?
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Clockwise and widdershins, in alternation, and on top of poles balanced on piles of discredited reports of the toddler in chief’s misbehaviour?
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Authorities have expanded the fenced security perimeter around the White House, which now reaches to the outskirts of a park complex known as the Ellipse, near the National Mall. It comes amid concerns that the mostly peaceful protests seen in recent days could be marred by the rioting and looting seen at the beginning of the week and last weekend.
From:
At the moment even Faux News can decry all protesters as looters and hardened criminals.
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Is ‘mostly peaceful’ the new ‘mostly harmless’?
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Ultimately, the president, be it Orangemanbad, Obama, or one of the Bush people, has very little to no say whatsoever in policing. Yes, I understand that Orangemanbad has made… headlines saying his typical insane ■■■■. But it’s a distraction, and not at all related to policing policy, training, or which officers are hired/aren’t fired. That’s all local from the state level on down to individual cities.
On the federal level, there’s very little they can do. However, there are a couple of things the feds could do to help, ya know, if they got off their asses.
- end the Drug War
- stop sending surplus military equipment to police departments
- pass legislation to end qualified immunity
- end civil asset forfeiture
Much of the problem centers around the Drug War and trickles down from there. Over the past several decades, the Bill of Rights has been eroded in the name of fighting drugs. This has lead to no-knock raids, unreasonable searches, etc., along with an incentive for criminals to engage in violence, thus making cops wary (and rightfully so) when dealing with drug dealers and the black market’s associated crime. Or even those they merely suspect are engaged in such things.
Beyond the above though, there’s very little the feds can do. This is much more a local problem. The cities need to reform their policing methods, and they should do it right the ■■■■ now. Let’s not be fooled into believing that the Democrats are the party of police reform, either. In most major cities across the country that have issues with their police departments, local city councils and mayors have been almost exclusively staffed by Democratic politicians for decades. (St. Louis, Chicago, NY, LA, Philly, Cleveland, Boston, etc., etc.)
This isn’t a problem that reasonable people can lay at the feet of the GOP or the DNC. This is a problem primarily caused by politicians from both parties who just don’t give a ■■■■ about us plebs. Which is why I said that we need to STOP VOTING FOR THESE PEOPLE.
Vote 3rd party, vote independent, vote for Mickey ■■■■■■■ Mouse. I don’t care. Just please stop voting for the same thing over and over again. I mean, what’s the worst that happens? Your party won’t win? So the ■■■■ what? Oh wait, I know - “this is the most important election in our lifetimes!!!11” Seriously, how many times are you going to swallow that bag of ■■■■ before you learn your damn lesson? They say that EVERY election. Every. Single. One.
I don’t have high hopes for the defund the police movement. My assumption is that the ‘power vacuum’ left by a defunded Minny police dept will just be filled by state or county police. Then again, I’m honestly not entirely certain how this is supposed to work as it’s a little short on details, so I could very well be wrong. But the pessimism is strong in this one regarding the government reforming itself. 
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Honestly, the reason what Trump did on this unnerved me wasn’t his words (though those were disgusting), but the threat to use the Insurrection Act. That is legitimately ■■■■■■■ terrifying on a national level. I don’t know what the outcome would’ve been, but I sincerely doubt it would’ve been good.
As for what Minneapolis is doing, as I understand it they’re replacing a lot of what the police do with other services. So there shouldn’t be a vacuum, it’s just that there’s going to be less ‘police’-work going on. I could be wrong on this though, I haven’t read much about the restructuring.
I will say this though Mike, if you don’t consider getting Trump out to be a big deal, I really don’t know what to say. He’s managed to pack more damage to our nation into one ■■■■■■■ term than most of the modern presidents did combined. Had you said this about '08 or '12 I’d agree. I found those elections pleasantly nonthreatening (comparatively at least). I disliked the platforms, but I didn’t feel like the candidates were personal dangers to either me or the nation. Trump is.
Honestly I was actually ruminating about this earlier, after W I thought we were due a break. I mean, look at how ■■■■■■■ awful the last fifty years-ish of presidents have been. Yet even by that standard most didn’t have a patch on W. Instead we wound up with a ‘hold my beer’ moment, and met the man that a decent argument can be assembled for being the worst president in US history. Could reality cut us a break? Hell, could reality cut me a break? I’m really ■■■■■■■ tired of things getting worse.
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I haven’t seen details, but I really hope that’s part of the Dem’s House proposal. Also, if police departments didn’t have to maintain and run all those ex-military vehicles, it would save money for better things.
Didn’t I read somewhere that the whole ‘War on Drugs’ thing was Nixon’s way of doing an end-run around the implications of the Civil Rights Act etc.?
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This may be the post with the most blocked-out letters I ever read from you. I agree completely, though.
While complaining about Trump is very much en vogue one shouldn’t forget one simple point: it’s justified.
One can believe Faux News or the liar-for-hire types like Spicer, Conway or McInany that he’s the best president ever and no one could have done a better job, sure. But unlike his predecessors, Trump damages America’s reputation in the world, simply because he isn’t trustworthy.
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A second Trump term would have a lot of political leaders around the world seriously squirming in their respective seats of power. But particularly in Canada and Western Europe. Putin would probably be celebrating like mad, though.
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Kind of. According to a member of the Nixon administration, well I won’t quote him, but it was to disenfranchise certain populations. Namely minorities and drug users. Since they were political opponents.
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Honestly? I go back and forth. I don’t think he’s a danger to you or I, personally. I do think he’s a danger to the country though. However, the reason I go back and forth on it is because of what I wrote earlier. It’s always a national emergency that we get rid of Politician A and replace with Pol B. I’m just not buying it. And while I agree (somewhat paradoxically I admit) that he’s a danger to the country, I also think that our institutions are strong enough to withstand the danger imposed.
I’ll phrase it like this: Vote Biden if you must, but don’t expect any substantial change when/if he wins. However, if IIRC, you dear Temet live in Oregon. Biden’s going to carry your state no matter what - so what’s it hurt for you to NOT vote Dem or Rep? Nothing is the answer. Same with me. Trump will win Missouri so it won’t matter a damn bit when I write in Jordan Binnington. Who cares?
But I’m not casting the rest of my ballots for either major party, as they’ve shown over the past 150 years that they can’t be trusted to stop the madness. So I’ll not participate in their little game.
■■■■, he’s been one of our more reasonable-sounding former presidents lately.
Well, I’ll put it to you like this: one of the things that both gun control and the drug war have in common is that they are both rooted in racist fear and fear-mongering.
Right?! Ha, I like a curse word-filled Temet.
It’s absolutely justified. But my point is that this problem is both bigger than, and predates, Orangemanbad. He could decide to leave office tomorrow, and it wouldn’t change a damn thing. Even if Pence also left office and Pelosi (shudder) took over as president, it wouldn’t change a goddamn thing as far as the issue of policing in America is concerned.
Hence, my belief that a focus on Trump is a distraction. It’s unproductive because it leaves the larger philosophical and practical arguments over policing and instead takes a trip on down ■■■■-face politics road. Which is a stupid road. Why would anyone want to drive on that road? Stay off that road.
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Talking of…
So, is this the ‘No Lives Matter’ movement at work? /s
Seriously, what is it with people driving vehicles into protests? There was a truck/tanker last week iirc.
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And a couple of NYPD vehicles. Why do they do this, you ask? Idk. Betting odds for “he’s an ■■■■■■■” look pretty good tho.
Edited to add: Know what might decrease these incidents? Armed peaceful protesters. Cause if someone drives a vehicle into a crowd, that’s assault with a deadly weapon. The correct recourse to that is shooting the person trying to kill you.
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Well… it’s not great, but it’s not horrible. It’s a good place to begin anyway.
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