Possible Changes to Gaige's Skils

Borderlands 2 Gaige the Mechromancer
#51

No, the number of stacks and the rank in the skill both influence the slag chance

…

There are plenty of good things about IO. Sure you could be doing the same amount of damage by shooting instead of waiting for your stacks to fill up, but the reverse is also true: You don’t have to shoot and you are still “doing damage”. It’s a skill that stabilizes your DPS by filling up any gaps with potential damage.

Any time you’re moving from one area to the next, you’re still “doing damage”
Any time you’re reloading, ducking behind cover, throwing a grenade, summoning DT, switching gun… you’re still doing damage. It encourages you to take other actions without losing your DPS. that in itself is very very good.

And on top of that, it debuffs!
The first shot of any engagement is almost always a guaranteed slagged target…with a big missing chunk of health.

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#52

I agree with all of this. Plus, it really doesn’t take that long to regain stacks. It’s worth the points in my book, especially if you have a COM that will give it a boost.

My only complaint is that slag applied by IO seems to wear off enemies much faster than that applied by, say, a Magic Missile or plasma caster. Anyone have a clue about how that side of the equation works? Does the duration depend on the initial slag damage only, or on the chance to slag? I know it will be modified by “resistance to slag” which will vary between enemy types; is there anything else that factors in?

#53

Duration is 8 seconds, 16 in UVHM.
Terra resist slag, maybe some other enemies do too.

Other than that, there are no other factors AFAIK

I have noticed that IO slag will sometimes wear off very fast, but I’m inclined to say it’s a bug rather than part of an intended function of the game. Something about a timer that resets at the same time as the IO timer does sounds like something that might be happening.

#54

Isn’t slag duration 5 seconds, and 8 seconds in UVHM?

#55

Nope. It’s 8 seconds in normal mode.

#56

Then IO is seriously bugged still with regard to duration, because it is nowhere near that long in any mode!

#57

I don’t want to say that IO isn’t a good skill specially while playing through the game with non optimized weapons and to add free damage to your shoots but at the end waiting for stacks doesn’t make that much damage as shooting the enemy.

OP8 Level 80 slagged Vandal (Marcus Mission)

Level 10 IO 5 stacks 3960 K Dmg
Level 10 IO 1 stack   792 K Dmg

Slagged this Target with IO and it’s 16seconds slagged

Noticed while checking the dmg numbers:
When you only wait for 1 stack, shoot, 1stack, shoot … instead of wait for 5 stacks you only need a little bit more time but doing more dmg because you have the shot dmg as bonus.
(IO needs ~2 sec for the first stack and ~8sec for 5stacks)

OP8 Level 80 Vandal (Marcus Mission)
Barrel 3 OP8 Schock Fibber (Level 2 Wires don’t talk)
0 Anarchy Stacks

                  Without Bee           Bee
without slag      1182 K                7216 K
with slag         3528 K                21756 K
                                                  +35% Shock Bone of the Ancients
without slag      1858 K                9783 K
with slag         5576 K                29725 K

With a Shock Fibber + Bone of the Ancients (without slag + Bee) against a flesh enemy I only need 3 hits (max ~9 shots) to outperform a 5 stack IO and I can shoot a lot (2 magazines = 28 shots) in the time I have to wait for 5 stacks.

Once again I don’t find IO isn’t a good skill. But it isn’t worth waiting for stacks when you can shoot instead.
There are times (no enemies, reload, under massive fire…) where you can gain stacks that add free dmg.

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#58

It’s a rather limited way of looking at it.

It’s not like the only 2 things you can do in the game are “shooting” and “not shooting”. In comparison, IO is not cutting it vs straight up shooting. But what are you doing while the stacks accumulate by themselves? If you’re just standing there doing nothing, you’re wasting your time, but If you’re throwing grenades for example, then it’s just pure extra. There are a LOT of things you can do during that time. Reloading, summoning DT, throwing grenades, swapping guns…

You’re right that it’s not worth stopping shooting to stack IO, but it’s not what it’s intended for.

It’s a stop gap skill. It’s meant to even out your DPS. It’s meant to make it so that whenever you decide to do anything but shoot, you’re not penalized for it.

With a playstyle that revolves around shorter mags and more frequent reloads, IO alone makes up for the difference. Instead of seeing it as a bad alternative to shooting, If you see it as a way to enhance everything else, it starts to look much better. :smile:

Edit: Another example is sniping. If you are sniping, you’re likely taking your time to aim, and if you miss IO doesn’t go off. In that case, IO is just pure extra too.

Also… please don’t bring the Bee in there. Crutches are just that. If you’re using the Bee, NOTHING is better than straight up shooting.

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#59

that’s more or less that what I said, or at least wanted to say in my limited english

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#60

Alright, glad we’re on the same page :smile:

#61

So, Shock and AAAGGGGHHH! is actually sorta pretty good now. On its own, its only useful for stripping weak shields and healing with a Grog, but when you get the synergy going with the other skills its pretty frickin good.

#62

Agreed. I’ve only been playing with it at levels 50 and 70, but for the one point investment I don’t really see how you can go wrong.

Well, other than the odd barrel incident, anyway… :frowning:

#63

Damnit! you just scooped me on my build… :stuck_out_tongue:
If only I wasn’t so slow working things together

#64

It’s pretty close to a few ninja’d builds!

Edit: Noticed @0verload that you didn’t include Shock Storm - was that because of its limited range?

#65

I didn’t include it in mine either. It’s completely unreliable, too limited in range. I’d rather put the points in Myelin.

#66

That, and the damage isn’t all that significant considering how S&A is now.

1 Like
#67

I told you it got a buff, Chuck! :smile:

1 Like
#68

Ran through more UVHM tonight (Hunter’s Grotto and Scylla’s Grove). Yes, if the slag takes, it sticks longer. I’m not sure what it is with some things though - either they simply don’t take the slag, or it washes off fast, or the slag ‘skin’ doesn’t show up, or something. Certain scaylions, boroks, stalkers, and bullymongs show this problem.

I’ve also seen some of the larger bullymongs jump sideways (like they were avoiding a grenade) from the IO digisplosion and apparently avoid taking the slag, while other times I’ve seen skaggs run clean through the digisplosion and again appear to take no slag.

This is all both before and after the update, and with a boost to IO to give either 10/5 or 11/5. Unfortunately, being on 360 I can’t grab video and then analyse the actual damage numbers to see if it’s just the slag ‘skin’ not showing (or being overlaid with something else), or if the specific enemy types I’m seeing issues with really do just shrug the IO slag off.

So if anyone can provide some clarity/insight, I’d appreciate it!

#69

I’m with you, I’ve seen it too at times.

I think it has less to do with Slag itself than it does with IO’s strange nature, because i’ve never had it happen at another moment.

#70

I assume you left EE out for the purposes of testing?

Agree on the latter. Given the massive range of most AoE effects I think they limited it too much.
‘Unreliable’ overall I’d call a matter of playstyle and enemy density on a given map.
A well-timed singularity nade does good work on less dense maps whether you then proc the SS or DT does - quite apart from a portion of AoE/singularity nade damage counting as a crit and sometimes proccing SS in its own right.

It makes no sense, but I’m not complaining.