Possible "middle road" for casual PvP solo vs pre-mades

Obviously with the changes to PVP queues (casual and competitive) there’s been a number of posts on the forums discussing the like and dislike of the change.
The largest issue seems to be around the pre-made groups that go out “pub stomping”. This is just a poll to get an idea from the player base if this is something they feel might be a good middle ground. You can still group with your friends for casual but possibly in smaller sizes.
I understand this will obviously piss off a few of the people who consistently play in full groups each night. I, on occasion, would be one of those people who do, however I personally wouldn’t mind a limit of 3. (and that’s what I’ll vote for!" Limiting casual to smaller groups would still allow fast games and friends to play with each other in a non-competitive setting while alleviating the frustration of that the solo players feel when being grouped against a full 4 or 5 man party.
So please, totally informal poll to satisfy my curiousness. And who knows? If this is something a large majority are ok with it’s something the devs might make note of.

  • I’d be ok with limiting the group size to 2.
  • I’d be ok with limiting the group size to 3.
  • Casual PvP grouping is fine as is.

0 voters

Plenty of people convinced a group of friends to buy this game so that they can all play together, myself included. They can’t change the game so that they can no longer do that, and you can’t dictate to us how we can play. If you want things to be more balanced then I’d say ask for a matchmaking that attempts to pair smaller groups against each other, because not allowing people to play isn’t something that’s going to happen.

5 Likes

Not sure what to make of that, this was merely a suggestion/informal poll. I play with 4 and 5 man groups however I’m honestly ok with it and I think there may be a number of others who are as well. Then again I could be wrong (and it wouldn’t be a first) so I put the poll together to find out. Plus, I can still 5 man story mode or competitive.
The problem is that there is literally not a single solution that will make every one happy so the challenge lies in finding the middle ground where people at both ends will go, “ok, that’s not exactly what I wanted, but it’s not bad either.”
No matter what though there will always be the extremes. The full groups who want 5 man casual - no exceptions and the solos who want all solos - no exceptions.

It’s easy enough to fix, stop playing Casual and let ratings sort you appropriately.

Casual’s very existence is silly…but if you sign up for a terrible random matchup I don’t know what you expect.

In every game that does this casual junk, a large percentage of “casual” queuers are:

  1. People being silly and scared, thinking they need to be experts to play in a rated mode.
  2. People wanting to protect their rating and inflated ego, and therefore they play casual when not grouped up so they can artificially increase their rating.
  3. Same as number 2, except instead of being without premade they are playing a new character.
  4. Trolls or people who just want easy wins.

It is nothing new which is why it’s sad to see this game go down that road when the previous system of attempting to matchmake for everybody was better…

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Amen to that. I would have rather they just added the competitive queue to cover ranked games and left the 3 old modes so the choice of which mode you want to play is in the hands of the players. However the pool of players is running a little thin so I get why GB did it even if I don’t agree with it.

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I don’t think it’s a good idea to prevent a full pre-made team from playing together, but something does need to be done about the pub stomping:

First, thank you to anyone that voted. Granted there’s only 15 so far but it’s interesting to see around half like it as is and the other half are ok with limiting the team size. And remember, this was just to get a feel not to “tell people how to play” kind of thing since that seems to be the immediate go to.

Neither do I, outside of casual, so that’s where I feel competitive has its spot. I like the suggestion of implementing the ELO and loosening it up. But the real problem that needs to be addressed was mentioned by you in that post:

Whether it’s marketing or not that needs to pull that highlighted part off, that’s the issue. If we had 2000-3000 more players on average on-line at any given moment most of these headaches simply go away.

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Well, I’m pissed off!!

Not really. I did vote that I would be okay with limiting it to three. That is typically what we do when we play with too many already.

I just don’t see this ever happening. I’m the only of my eight friends that even glances at the forums. It’s hard to say what percentage of the player base roams the forum, but I think limiting the size of groups would have more of a negative effect on the player base. Just my opinion of course.

I know my friends wouldn’t be particularly happy, but not displeased enough to stop playing. They, like me, just want to be able to keep playing. Whatever successfully keeps the game going is good with us (and I imagine most people).

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I honestly feel like if you’re in a pre-made 5 man, it should only queue you with another pre-made 5 man. Having been pubstomped and pubstomping others I feel like it’s not fun for either side to have 5 people communicating on 1 team, and no one talking on the other. You either face roll them into a surrender 6 mins in if you’re the 5 man, or 3 people leave before the match starts and you’re back in queue. Personally I wouldn’t mind waiting longer for another 5 man group so at least I know it’ll be a fun match.

There is literally zero chance of anybody telling people they can’t play with their friends. It is what you call a “non-starter”.

What could be done if we get an actual ratings system into place with a good player base… and everybody agrees to queue into the ratings system instead of running off to casual is this: Separate ELO ratings for people based on queue size! For example, a player could have a rating of X(750) when solo queued and Y(850) when grouped in a full group…and the system could use that information to attempt to make better matches which would mean it is even less likely for a top-tier 5-man to get grouped with a bunch of soloers.

This of course requires the current debacle to get fixed, and a player base where there are actually other 3,4,5 man teams to give them some competition…

Casual literally means group me with anybody I just want to play right now… which is why it’s extra unfortunate that competitive games aren’t happening reliably…

1 Like

Say you have a group of friends and you’re waiting in competitive or spotlight lobby.

And you’re waiting… and waiting…

And it becomes clear that you’re not getting a match anytime soon, so hop over to casual?

No sorry no parties allowed here…

I guess… we play a different game?

You can’t punish a team/group for playing together as intended.

2 Likes

they tried solo queue in destiny, and it soon went away because nobody really played it that much. solo queue was invented in destiny because of how upset the majority of the playerbase was once they implemented non optional skill based matchmaking in all playlists. which brings me to my next point: elo based matchmaking has to remain optional, regardless of the size of the playerbase. it punishes skilled players and allows less than skilled players to remain exactly where they’re at by enabling bad decisions and a lack of knowledge of mechanics of characters and game modes.

Agreed. But there’s a problem right now with solos feeling like they’re being punished for not playing in a group. (read pub stomp) I honestly believe we’ve lost quite a few people because of it.

If it keeps up…

And that will be the same once you have handfuls of groups trying to find games.

But this is the point of a forum. Throw out suggestions; see how the community feels. Not all are going to be good, but it beats sitting on our asses and not engaging in ways to possibly improve this game and the community as a whole.

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For now I’d much rather there only be one queue. Especially if people are saying the comp & spotlight queues are too long already. :stuck_out_tongue:

One queue to rule them all. Also, start with tight elo, and loosen it for every minute spent in matchmaking. So you can get good games and you can still get games even if you have fringe elo. combines the casual and comp queues into one beast that does both things.

i dont think groups are the problem.

I often wonder what the exact process is for that and if this was part of the equation. ie, every minute queued loosens restrictions a tad.

Most aren’t, but unfortunately there’s a few that are creating the problems. Hell, we ran a 5 man the other night and any time we encountered all solos are really low levels we’d play new characters. During one match we even decided no one was allowed to touch their Miko!
Playing solo I’ve seen pre-mades back off a bit to at least make it look like we’re doing something right! But I’ve also been in those matches where it’s a full 5 man that just play relentlessly. It sucks. I’m a fan of playing with a full group, but I try to take the approach of happy-mediums.

i feel like once the reporting feature comes out those fringe users that are ruining the games for others will eventually get reported as such. I’m pretty much waiting for the update.

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Good points.

I’m guessing the playerbase is already too small to separate further, but a “parties allowed” and “no parties” option for lobbies would alleviate the problem.

i would personally quit the game if they did this. not that anyone would miss me, but i would peace out. that is why i left destiny way back when. not having an optional non skill based matchmaking punished good players for being good, and enables bad players to continue to maintain the exact same skill level. there has to be a balance of sometimes playing against way better and way worse teams and players at least in one queue

eventually, sure, but for the number of players right now this seems to address both problems and it doesnt split the player base. shrug

idk if it is a pc thing or what. cant they split that sort of thing up per platform? i know i have never had a queue time issue except for shortly after the game came out when the elo was really tight. i used to sit in queue sometimes indefinitely.