Possible Solutions for Battleborn issues. Devs Cordially Invited

So, let’s start off like this.

I love Battleborn.

but this is not a thread about that, but at the same time it is.
I want to see this game do well, but it’s not due to 3 main issues, IMO.
Bear with me, This is not complaining. To fix issues you first need to acknowledge they exist.
I move onto possible fixes after my 3 points.

EDIT:
These 3 points are the points i hear REPEATED in all my game chats.
I apologize to Devs if these seem harsh, but this is what it feels like to players.
Again, i stress these points are general opinion about why the game is hurting and I do not intend to blame.

  1. SEVERE lack of communication from gearbox/2k (devs in general)
  • not addressing balance issues fast enough

    • this isn’t entirely the devs fault, you can only patch so fast, I’m just stating what is hurting the state of the game
    • first ISIC, then Alani, pretty much made PvP hell and people quit, this stuff coulda been caught before release
  • no transparency on how the game works, scoring, drop rates, other values
    (people stopped playing because of frustration of no information)

  • no actual plans on what to do for the future
    (that are voiced to community at least)

  1. Game is not rewarding enough to players in the areas it matters
  • zero actual rewards for achieving max command rank/chara rank
    (other than a one time pat on the back reward)

  • HORRIBLE Legendary item drop rate
    (i’ve played 58 story missions in a row with zero drops now)

  • PvP needs to be rewarded in the right areas
    example: give the winners of a surrender match more stuff
    its realllllly annoying to queue for a match, only to win it in 6 minutes and barely get any rewards at ALLLLLL
    surrenders penalize the winners, by a LOT (they did VERY well, so they get LESS things? i’m confused…)

  1. OverWatch OverShadowing
  • overwatch is not battleborn but people seem to think they are the same
  • this issue is clearing up now that OW players are getting bored of the OverHype.
  • also, it feels like the only thing to spur action from the Devs was the sale of overwatch
    (we only got a double exp event BECAUSE it was the weekend of overwatch release)
    (and same goes for the Epic Pack shift codes, we’ve only gotten blues since OW release died out)

OK, now we know the issues, so let’s address them.


  • Communication
    This one I can’t fix, but is a simple fix.

Please devs, even if you just say you know about an issue and have no idea wtf you are doing about it.
SAY THAT. Say you do not know, say you are working on it and are not ignoring it.
anything is better than this deafening silence.

Also, DO NOT MAKE STEALTH CHANGES

  • announce ALL changes, don’t stealth nerf things in the background.
  • announce everything, the community will thank you in the long run. Information sharing is key.

We will find out eventually
and if you don’t announce everything then people will start rumors about changes made.
Like the rumor that Gear Drop Rate was lowered. (IS THIS TRUE? I’d love to know) <— example

This forum really needs an active community manager.
If it does have one, i have not seen or heard of them

  1. Rewarding players for actually playing battleborn

Ok this one is key
This is what keeps people playing
This is what keeps people coming back
People need progress, they want to be rewarded for their efforts.

First and FOREMOST is Legendary Drop rate

This is abysmally low.
I have played 58 story missions in a ROW now, with zero drops.
That’s over 30 hours of game play… with nothing to show for it… just WTF

Solutions?

Option A: Make the drop rate increase a bit every story you run without a drop.

Option B: Make the drop rate increase a bit for every story you run in a day.

Option C: Combo of the above 2 options

Option D: Make drop rate increase based on Command Rank and/or Character Rank
This allows people who are fully Leveled to actually be REWARDED for being fully Leveled and not shafted.


Another Issue with Legendaries is RNG on top of RNG

  • It is hard enough to get a legendary to even DROP, now you have to hope for max roll stats?
  • Why do legendaries not have varying cost values when they have varying stats?

Solutions?

Option A: Take away Variable Legendary stats just like you did for Lore Legendaries

Option B: Add a way to combine copies of legendaries to get a max roll version

  • i have 2 firmware updates and BOTH are crappy rolls, very frustrating

Option C: Add a way to re-roll stats on items, or just add power strength, or just put the item to max roll stats.

  • option for this would be to put out a shift code every month for an item to max out stats on one item

Next up in reward issues:
Not being rewarded after you Max Rank

  • Once you hit Command Rank 100, you get a pat on the back with a Legendary Loot Pack… then nothing

  • You receive ZERO bonuses for continuing to earn Command Rank exp.

  • Once you hit Character Rank 15, you get a pat on the back with a color swap skin and a title… then nothing

  • You receive ZERO bonuses for continuing to earn Character Rank exp.

All in all? Very disheartening to feel penalized for having max rank.
you get tons of WASTED command rank from achievements and every story or pvp, just… wasted

Solutions?

Option A: Turn all overflow exp into coins, this could be a 1:1 ratio or even half the amount, just SOMETHING to earn

Option B: Turn all overflow exp into another achievement, such as every 1000 exp you get a free loot pack

Option C: Overflow Command Rank exp can be used to boost drop rates in missions

Option D: Any Character Overflow exp can be used to earn any taunts or skins that you are missing for that character.

I like all of these options


Lastly, PvP reward Issues
On top of the exp cap issues, there is also annoyance at the lack of rewards in PvP
No real way to earn items other than coins to buy packs, BUT the coins earned is way too low for the time invested.
Also, if your team stomps hard and earns a Surrender from the enemy team, you get slapped with LESS rewards
That’s right, you basically get PENALIZED for performing extremely well.

(another side issue is Leavers and AFKs in pvp, but that’s for another time, games always have this issue.)

Solutions?

  • Add more ways to earn items/coins in PvP like daily quotas

    • Play X amount of capture, earn 500 coins
    • Win 1 match, earn 100 coins
    • Collect x amount of shards
    • Build X amount of buildables
  • Add “Win by Enemy Surrender” Rewards

    • Give Credit to winners equal to a full match played (coins and exp)

The OverWatch OverShadowing Issue

Solutions?

Don’t react to Overwatch.
Pay attention to Battleborn and support it however you can.


I hope this generates some solutions that we can work with.
I really do hope for the best for this game and GearBox.

Comment below if you have anything Constructive to add.
If it is a good point or possible solution I will add it and give you credit.

7 Likes

I agree about lack of incentive for multiplayer, you can plug 100’s of hours into for example a Cod (not being a fanboy just an example, i don’t really like Cod anymore) and still have things left to do. However the exp thing i don’t support. Once you hit max level the exp is redundant why should you then be rewarded with coins? How many games have you played where this happens? You hit max rank you get a pat on the back and a title. That is the industry standard and i think it’s a little greedy to expect more tbh. But back to my original point pvp lack of incentive for sure, i know if i run a pve mission i will end with items and usually more coins and exp than playing the same amount of time on pvp. Also higher rate of loot packs on pvp, I’ve had one and my brother hasn’t even had that.

1 Like

Say what? You don’t get any gear from pvp matches just exp and coins

I feel like they could add pvp bounties either per daily or weekly that once completed gets you some more character xp, coins, and loot packs

ohhh a bounty system in PVP would be fun.

  • Kill Ghalt
  • First blood as X person.
  • win in under X minutes.

etc, get some GOALS going in pvp

2 Likes

Ah maybe I leveled a character and didn’t realise, okay loot packs in pvp please :wink:

just wanted to first say.

@Jythri @JoeKGBX

and i love you guys.

since they closed the ask the devs anything thread, i guess this is as good a place as any to at least somewhat reach out to the devs while also staying on topic somewhere. i usually hate, hate, hate to participate in any kind of complaining to developers or getting into these types of threads that kind of gang up on you guys. i can only imagine the immense pressure you guys are all under from your superiors, as well as the pressure you put on yourselves because you’re great at what you do.

But, guys, this is really how i also feel. You have my total support regardless, and have for many years now. I am really struggling to wrap my head around the alani situation. i know that you have been crystal clear that there is a rework inbound. thank you for listening. perhaps you could use this post as an opportunity to give us some kind of realistic timeframe for when that will be, and maybe be transparent about what changes you are thinking about making so you could get some feedback prior? if i am to be completely transparent with you, i have a burning desire to know why there was not another hotfix applied to her today. again, another opportunity to be transparent and communicate with us as to why you did not think one was needed. because to a lot of us, if she is awaiting a patch, then you agree she isnt fixed yet. if she isnt fixed yet, why wasnt her dps cut down or her stun reduced?

again, i know it sounds like im really complaining. i apologize, im just looking for some kind of understanding.

1 Like

this is exactly how i feel.
i need to understand. Just being informed on what is happening or what COULD happen would be nice.

again, i stress, this is not to pass blame, this is to pass around possible solutions and fun ideas.

I like the idea, but of the challenges you mentioned could actually be a bit harmful if done incorrectly.

I don’t want something like “Get a first blood as Miko”, we already have Miko players who refuse to heal as is. Also, I’m against the idea of “Kill X character” type of challenges as they could potentially discourage people to play that character since they would constantly be singled out by everyone they go up against. It could also cause a situation where there is a Kill Boldur challenge, which could result in everyone focusing the Boldur instead of his pocket Miko exactly like he wants you to.

I think having some general challenges like “win in under X minutes” are fine since they don’t directly encourage unwanted behavior from your teamates, but there should be some more class specific challenges as well. Things like “steal X amount of health as a Jennerit”, or “Take X amount of damage as a Defender Battleborn” would be neat ideas imo. Maybe having one big weekly/monthly challenge like they did in the Beta would be cool too.

yes. i play this game religiously, probably to a fault. i looked forward to it for over a year, and now that it is here i dont want it to get ruined. i remember the way i felt when the test went away and i had to go back to another game. then when the beta came and left and i had to go back to another game. if im not at work or asleep, im on battleborn or on this forum talking about battleborn. i will play through way greater imbalance than this, as i already have in the past. but it is currently kind of really cheapening my experience when i know it is something that is so easily fixed. just disable her til she is fixed. problem solved. still so many great characters to play in the meantime

The thing with Battleborn is that I’m worried it’s another oen of those games that’s going to hurt me by getting me so invested and then killing itself. Champions Online and so many others have done that.

How does this happen? Well, I get invested because it’s hard for video games to maintain my interest, a lot of it is about how progressive the game is, how much I like the story and dialogue, and how diverse the characters are. They won me over on three of four counts. Sure, I’ll admit the story can be a bit threadbare, but the dialgoue between characters (just the general banter) more than makes up for it.

Champions Online had brilliant, campy '60s writing that I adored, and villains that were so hilariously cheesy that they were beautiful. it was like '60s Batman: The Game and I just fell in love with it. This is a game where you had a terrorist organisation take over Area 51 only for one of their commanding officers to complain about how dull and drab it is, going on to suggest how that may be fixed with some lovely purple drapes.

Everyone is falling over themselves these days to be grimdark, po-faced, and realistic. I’m tired of that. I kind of have a big imagination, so I don’t feel as limited to the familiar and alienated by the unknown as many people seem to. I mean, I’m actually fed up of seeing windows in starships when you could have augmented humans that can link to senory microdrones produced en maese by an on-ship factory. It’s the future, so why not?

It’s depressing when the Microsoft HoloLens is more advanced than 99.9~ per cent of all science fiction. I just never know how to feel about that other than we must be a species of regressive neo-luddites. Not at all fun.

Anyway, the point is? I love Battleborn for being unafraid. It has its own vibe and personality, it’s never afraid of sharing that with you and it has an attractive confidence in that it doesn’t care if you don’t like it. I really want to be besties with all the sentry drones, too. Geoff, Wolf, Chronicle… Poor Wolf.

Point is? I love this game’s spirit. It has spirit. It’s not going for the familiar, braindead, unimaginative, overly mainstream thing that nearly every other game does go for these days. Even in its aesthetics (giant 2D particles, the light shafts on Mr. The Dragon’s arms, et cetera) it feels like a throwback to the Playstation2 era. I’m proud of it for how it revels in its own oddness.

That’s fantastic. I am very, very invested in this game. I care about it. And yet… in the end, I think it’ll break my heart. These games always do.

Linked PvP and PvE Balancing

When you have this, you’re never going to balance PvE right. Never. In fact, you’re going to destroy someone’s favourite character regularly. And all because someone was min-maxing in PvP with a certain helix configuration and loadout.

The thing is is that the balancing never hit Borderlands this hard. Never. I loved those games. And why? There was no PvP to balance it by. There were no complaint threads that lead to nuclear ham-fisted nerfs of characters. As such I think it’s easier to make the claim that the game would be many times more healthy if these balancing elements were separated.

Bad Balancing

They’re not giving me confidence that they know how to balance. The thing is? They should have numerical baselines for things like attack, healing, survivability and so on that they adjust characters to, and they should have logical reasons for who is above and below these baselines based upon what they do.

This would allow them to tweak up weak characters to a numeircal baseline, creating better balance. Then once the nerfs hit, they won’t seem so severe. All of the games I’ve loved the most have balanced this way, and they’re all doing well for themselves.

The impression they’re giving though is that they’re doing nuclear nerfs of ‘OP’ characters to suit the weakest heroes in the game and that makes me cringe. There’s been only one buff so far since beta, and that was Ghalt, which they then redacted.

There are so many broken, underpowered heroes in Battleborn right now that they should be focusing their efforts on figuring out what their baseline is and then bringing these weaker heroes in line with them. A clear example of weaker heroes? Pretty much all of the Rogues, all of them, seem underpowered compared to other characters.

People mention power creep regarding tweaking up to a baseline but they don’t know what it means. I won’t paste it again, here, but look it up on Google. The meaning of power creep is very different than what people think it means. It definitely doesn’t support an argument for bad balancing, that’s for sure.

So not only do I want to see a separation of the balancing elements, I want confidence that they actually have a baseline. I want to see buffs, sensible buffs, to go alongside sensible – not nuclear – nerfs.

Balancing for Overwatch

Part of the reason I think the balancing has gone so toxic is that they’re trying to make the game Overwatch. Every nerf has been to survivability, they’re trying to reduce the TTK to compete with Overwatch.

Two problems with this.

The first is that people like the higher TTK, it’s much more tactical and encourages team play. I don’t think that Battleborn was ever meant to be a coffee break game like Overwatch is. And I don’t think that any amount of 'balancing\ could turn it into that.

In fact, I’m convinced that if they keep hammering down the TTK, they’re going to destroy their own game. What they need to do is show confidence in their own game by keeping the TTK as it was supposed to be. Confidence is inspiring and attractive, it draws people in and lets them believe. If you’re showing a lack of confidence in your own product, then that’ll trickle down into the minds of your players and they’ll lose faith in you.

Not only that, but this game has a PvE component. Which is – once again – why they need to unlink PvP and PvE balancing. If they keep lowering the TTK and hitting survivability in PvP, how do you think that’s going to affect PvE. Consider this: By making the characters more squishy and easy for hordes to kill, do you think that’s going to make The Saboteur any easier?

Confidence

This is the most important thing. I want them to be more confident, I want them to actually have a plan and share it with us, I want them to be confident in that plan. Even if I don’t agree with their reasons, I don’t care. And even if I am heartbroken and I have to leave the game behind, at least they’ll have believed in what they were doing rather than desperately trying to be Overwatch, or just as desperately trying to appeal to nerf politickers.

I want to see the balancing team’s faith in their own game. I haven’t seen that, yet. All I’ve seen them be is insecure, honestly, and that’s not a good sign.

I believe in their writers, their artists, and their designers. I think that these people did exemplary jobs. The people behind the balancing though just have me shaking my head constantly. I don’t have any faith in them, and going by community sentiment, I don’t actually know that anyone does. This is what bothers me the most. I want to be able to actually get behind Battleborn as example of something awesome that I know will live on.

I don’t see that happening. I see a balancing team ruining another game I love and breaking my heart again. Which is why I’ve been playing less and less of late, if I can wean myself off of it now and go onto other games, it’ll hit less hard when this one goes the way of the digital dodo.

And that is a shame, because I really do love this world Gearbox’s creative people made. I do. I’m an autistic weirdo and I don’t really get to enjoy a whole lot of games like this. They’re all so cloyingly familiar, just aping one another hoping to steal the other’s successes. There’s not been a whole lot of originality. So when something that really has originality and personality does come along, I usually get really excited. I’ve been genuinely excited about this game, I hope that’s shown.

I really do hope that people at Gearbox can see that I did have so much faith in this game. But I don’t have faith in its future and I’m just going to be one sad puppy when ineptitude just ends this game, too. It’s frustrating! I’ve seen it happen time and time again, and I feel very powerless to stop this kind of ruination from happening.

It really is frustrating.

3 Likes

As far as I know, match rewards are exclusively time-based. So, if someone surrenders, you get less, but can get into another match that much more quickly. I think people surrender all the time when a game is winnable, but no one is getting "penalized " for it (except by virtue of the time required to get into another match).

So much yes, very well put sir/madam.
I too love this game, even after the people I started playing with went back to other games I stuck by (and still sticking too) Battleborn’s side. I’ve got over 150 hours logged so far and most have been pve, didn’t really start pvp ing until a few days ago (did mikos 50 assists that was it) Thorns 20 volley airborn kills got me back into pvp (got all 20 in a single day!) and I haven’t looked back since. I love my Thorn so in order to get my master title had to do it. I sport that title always now she’s my love. Mainly play meltdown I solo que it’s a little better matchmaking for solo players in my opinion.

Anyways I’m rambling I love this game so much I don’t want a broken heart </3

Keep Battleborn alive!!!

1 Like

I really have to agree with the balance issues between PvP and PvE. You seriously can’t touch one without breaking the other, and I’ve seen it happen way too many times (specially in Blizzard’s other game, World of Warcraft). They adjust/nerf something because it’s too overpowered in PvP, then it’s broken and useless in PvE. This is one of my main concerns with the game.

The other is I enjoy playing PvE with random people. I like playing Advanced mode for the extra challenge, but right now, the some of the levels are just way too overtuned and nearly impossible to beat with a team of 5. Solo or a couple of people? No problem. Throw in 5? You’re doing the Heliophage, and on Rendain, he’s got like 20 Brutes in the 3rd phase just blowing the hell out of everyone. There’s no escape. Everyone dies, then when we respawn and hop back down, everyone dies again. I’ve given up completely on The Experiment on Advanced with 5, I just chalk it up as an instant loss due to the sheer amount of overpowered enemies that spawn. I don’t want to do these in solo mode, I just want to enjoy a random game with random people, it’s fun. But it’s not fun when the match lasts 5 minutes because everyone dies so fast, or you get to the end and you’re completely outnumber by a massive swarm of enemies.

I want to keep playing, I’m looking forwards to changes coming in the big update, I just hope a change is coming to Advanced to make certain levels possible with 5 people. While I wait, I do just play Normal and try out other characters, but I’ll eventually run out…

2 Likes

@DragonessHera
Have you tried pvp at all? I was getting really burned out on the pve grind (trying to collect all legendaries :joy:) so I started playing meltdown and its brought new life too this wonderfully amazing, highly addicting, oddball of a game

yeah, i’m a Lore Hound, so i did PvP for the following

  • Kill Ambra 25 times as Galilea
  • Kill Ambra 25 times as Alani (i’m at 13/25 cuz nobody plays ambra)
  • 20 headshot volley kills while jumping as thorn
  • 50 airborne kills as benedict
  • Miko Assists

etc
all kinda forced me into PvP
which is fine, pvp is awesome and fun

but the issue is, lore kinda forces you to play a certain way
because you want to finish it, its always in the back of your mind while you play
and it kinda forces your hand sometimes
even if you lose because of it
… like chasing ambra

2 Likes

I’m really enjoying this game. The way things are going though I don’t see it lasting. Just have fun with it while you can.

Suggestions I have for the game currently.

Aside from adding more content (Maps more than anything else currently)

Increase the base character exp gain rate. Command rank seems to go up just about every mission even at lv 80+ but character rank becomes a major grind at like 10. Also as others have mentioned possibly a prestige system for command rank. The idea I kind of had for this would be gaining a point that you would spend for bonuses similar in how you spent badass rank points in borderlands. Now granted in this case I wouldn’t make it anything to directly impact game balance, I was thinking more along lines of maybe item drop rate bonuses, end match/mission reward bonuses, etc…

All characters are not created equal. This is pretty much a fact of life on mobas. However can we get some love for characters that are popular by character design but horrible in mechanical implementation such as Toby? Poor little guy can’t even function the way he is supposed to in a PvP match due to his character model and his incredibly underwhelming core discharge. In toby’s case many of us have left suggestions on what to do to improve his viability.

Maybe add a daily task list. Short list of 3-5 randomly generated tasks to do in game that change every day for random rewards.

Game optimization. You guys are probably working on this but isolating the particular things causing the framerate drops will definitely make people happy. Because… you know… most these kids weren’t around during the online multiplayer with dialup days and people trying to use $300 emachine computers for gaming. >.> Dialup thing is probably why I still hit my marks when the game lags.

Take the “Nerf X character for being OP” posts with a grain of salt. I don’t feel like explaining this one in detail. If you are curious I’d go reading forums for other well known MOBA’s. Basically this stuff is going to always happen. Most of it is a result of player error or differences in player skill level or the misconception that all characters are created equal.

Clean up existing maps a bit. I’ve found numerous areas on most of the maps that have odd invisible micro ledges or portrusions that characters get stuck on.

More events. Players are attracted to events. Especially ones with shiny event exclusive prizes for stuff. I’m pretty sure Warframe’s playerbase jumps every time a new event comes out with a reskinned variant item reward.

Maybe give us a projected roadmap with plans for the game. Stuff to look forward to. You don’t have to set concrete dates. We just want a bit more insight on possible directions the game is going.

2 Likes

this is what i’d like.
even a vague sorta waypoint would be nicer than nothing.

This is what kills me the most… They can announce the new community moderator through a post but not type 3 simple words ‘We hear you’ for posts on major issues. Everyday I am waiting to jump back in the game (i’ve sold it last week because I can’t handle the disappointment if the game fails) and all I needed is for the dev to tell us they hear us.

Well I see Joe jump in quiet often with such “We hear you”-posts - you may try the “Dev Tracker” on the topbar, it leads you to all Dev posts :heart:
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/groups/Inside_The_Box

Its often hard to keep track and actually whitness a Devs post in these rather busy days in the forums, but if you use the tracker regulary its easier to follow up.

2 Likes