Possible Tediore Exploit on Sal?

I don’t have a chance to test this out yet, but I was curious to see if anyone else on here has tested, or at least heard of this exploit.

For anyone who’s aware of @DeputyChuck’s Deputy Sal build, or at least knows some of the more… interesting mechanics with Gunzerking, and the game’s engine, you’re probably aware of how bonuses, such as Money Shot specifically, when determining the bonus your off hand gun gets, uses the magazine size of your main hand gun to calculate this.

While I was looking into info on a Tediore Sal build, I stumbled across this 6 year old post on Reddit that claims Tediore reloads from your off hand gun follow the same idea i.e. checking the ammo left in your main hand to determine reload damage. I’ll try checking into it once I get home later, but that won’t be for awhile, and I figured if this does work, a lot of people would want to hear about it, and possibly make a CHOPPER/Launcher Sal (or Avenger, haven’t done the math on which does more damage, but a launcher with a possible 2000+ mag size just sounds ridiculous).

If this actually works, I could see it as a game changer (or at least, just make him even better than he already is at it) for raid boss speed kills on Sal. If anyone has the time to test it and post results, that would be awesome, but if not, I’ll keep everyone posted on my results.

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Check this out

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I’ve seen @kbk160008’s build already, and although it looks like a really solid, it doesn’t really answer my question about reloads in the off hand. I might be able to try to look at the damage values of each of his reloads he does with an off hand Tediore, and compare the damage with each weapon, but he swaps weapons faster than my puny brain can keep up, and it’s not always easy to see the damage values.

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Not true (anymore?). I haven't previously done any tediore reload testing previous to this (not really curious about the playstyle).

Anyway - tests done by lvl 70 Sal with only skillpoint spent to enable the action skill.
Purchased a lvl 69 top-notch Biggun tediore pistol for the test. 73100.24219 level scaled base damage. (damage number show on the item card)

So its reload damage has 2 terms. Impact and splash.

Impact damage = was constant/repeatable/calculable = BaseDamage * 0.45 * #BulletsInClip * GrenadeMul
The splash damage varies a bit depending (presumably on the distance/location of the hit)
Splash Damage = ~ImpactDamage * 1.03

So when added (like the game damage pop up does) it approaches Demonite’s formula
Reload Damage = Base Damage * Ammo Left in Mag * (1 + Grenade Damage %)


So with 1/16 bullet, BAR on ( grenade multiplier = 1.140802145 )
impact damage was
73100.24219 * 0.45 * 1 * 1.140802145 = 37526.8108907

And with 15/16 bullets , BAR on ( grenade multiplier = 1.140802145 )
impact damage was
73100.24219 * 0.45 * 15 * 1.140802145 = 562902.16336

Activated gunzerk with 11/11 bullets shotgun in main hand and fired only the off hand pistol until it got empty and auto reloaded …
impact damage was
73100.24219 * 0.45 * 1 * 1.140802145 = 37526.8108907 …

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You know gun cards don’t show decimal places right? Here you are again trying to seem smart, but 90% of this info is wasted on almost everyone

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What I recommend @peddroelm is to keep it concise : show the final result and stick your math in a “Hide Details”. In most cases it’s such a wash of numbers that most people aren’t going to get anything from it. Therefore your posts are going largely unread. Remember it’s not the math or the formulae that we’re interested in : it’s the final result and how it impacts the game.

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The reason I’m using decimal places in my calculations is because sadly, the game doesn’t show/explain the various formulas it uses for calculating various stuff either.
So when one attempts to discover the formulas used - one is forced to start from the simplest examples and build up adding various factors/parameters in various places checking if the result of their ASSUMPTIONS (calculation) MATCHES the output of doing that particular action in game (test result).

SO ONLY WHEN your CALCULATED number MATCHES the in-game measured TEST RESULT (the higher number of decimal places matched the better) it means your ASSUMED formula has a high likelyhood of beeing correct.

When the calculated number DOESN’T MATCH (significant difference) the test result it means your ASSUMED FORMULA IS WRONG. Maybe you read a parameter wrong, maybe one of the term is added in a different place, etc …
Point is NO MATCH between Calculated value based on ASSUMED formula and TEST RESULT means your assumed formula is wrong and you need to change you assumption and try again.

That’s why those decimal places are important.

Here’s why a least a very small portion of the user base might/should be interested in the math/formulas.

Firstly - I’m not the Oracle of Delhi, I AM NOT A SOURCE OF ABSOLUTE TRUTH (in the context of game mechanics), I’m human and I often make mistakes (be it simple math - which would be easily spottable by somebody fallowing the 4-th grade level math the game uses for these sort of calculations or I rush to conclusions before testing all/enough edge cases /etc …) .
I give out the methodology and tools used for my tests, the test data and the conclusions (wrong or correct as they might be) I drawn based on that. IF NOBODY EVER CHECKS …mistakes will can go uncaught for a long time.

If somebody has an idea an wants to test say an edge case I didn’t … he/she can use my test data, make some quick verifications and go on from there, without the need to start from scratch all over again …

And then there is obviously the issues of CONTRADICTING INFORMATION. I test and conclude ‘Y’ but I can’t possibly be right/correct because N years ago, this super famous bellowed and respected forum used said otherwise …based on ?

What arguments can a new forum user use against long established ideas of how this or that works, other than testing methodology, tools used, test results and conclusions ?

o_O

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Totally worth trying to throw me under the bus for, right?
Thanks for some free publicity though!

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I’d like to know how you come by such exact numbers. My game only displays whole numbers. Now, if you’re using Cheat Engine as a tool to mine data then my understanding is that such discussions are against forum rules. I’m sure you don’t wish to flout the rules.

You can feel anyway you want about us defending the hard work of our friends (everyone is entitled to their opinion), but they all provided evidence in the form of screenshots and videos rather than ill gotten numerical values. If you did the same you’d probably find a warmer welcome than you feel you’ve already received.

As for the topic at hand, if you could off hand an Omen with an SMG and have the Omen’s reload damage calculated by its card damage and the SMG’s magazine I would be very interested in Tediore Sal indeed.

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The closest I’ve ever come to something like this is dual-wielding Deliverances (cue the banjo…). I’m not sure I’d suggest it as the focus of a build, but it was a heck of a lot of fun through the WEP!

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6 posts were split to a new topic: Tediore Thread Drama

Temporary closure while folks calm down and remember the FORUM RULES