Potential/Interest in NEW Races and Campaigns by way of Expansion Packs for Remastered

Hello guys. Please feel free to speak your opinions after reading.

First, I would just like to say how excited I am that the franchise is seeing much deserved love and have already preordered the remastered collection. It’s great to be able to play epic space battles again and it couldn’t come at a better time with the dearth in the RTS market of late (I’m hoping this and Grey Goo are the first of many to change that).

To get back on topic I am rather intrigued that Gearbox and Blackbird are combining the races of the two games into one package for the mutliplayer beta. Disregarding my questions on future balance in regards to the HW1/HW2 gameplay mechanic differences (strikecraft squads, capital ship modules, shipyards, research). I’m wondering if they would be willing to experiment even more, further down the line.

Particularly, I’m curious if they would develop all new expansion packs that incorporated the other races in the campaigns that never made it into multiplayer. I am of course talking about the Turanic Raiders, Kadesh, Bentusi and Progenitors (I recognize that from a LORE perspective Progenitors would be op, but so are the Protoss in StarCraft, no reason they can’t be balanced from a gameplay perspective as a fleet of automated drones).

Whenever I played the old games, my biggest disappointment was that each game only had two races and that the campaigns had some really cool ships that ended up being unused anywhere else. To further expand this idea, I for one would be open to side story mini or full campaigns that focused on these races.

Having said all of this, I would like to address several possible counterpoints to these ideas.

A. How can they incorporate the campaign races when they were composed of only at most 3-5 ship types.

Noted, thats why these would be expansion packs in the classic sense. Gearbox and Blackbird would have to create whole new content that fleshed out the quirks and qualities of the campaign races while also incorporating the already made ships from the old games (Multi-Beam Frigate, Dreadnought, Bentus, Kadesh Needle ship, etc.)

B. Why would we want this, keep Homeworld 1 and 2 pure.

Well to each their own. However, the only remastered game were getting here that is close to “pure” is HW2. HW1 is a port into the HW2 engine, which among many added quirks, one of the most notable is that strikecraft attack behavior has been completely altered. Not to mention the fact that the MP beta is combining the 4 classic races. Frankly why not do this, this would be a fun stopgap to a still non guaranteed Homeworld 3.

C. Please don’t talk to Gearbox about DLC, look at what they did to Borderlands 2

I agree completely, hopefully they would keep to the classic ideal of the “expansion pack”

This is partly why HW is so attractive for modders. There were plenty of well-produced mods for HW and HW2 that added new races, including turanic raiders, kadeshi and progenitors with full fleets…

It’s possible to see the Turanic raiders or Kadesh play a role as a new race, I"m not the biggest fan of the progenitors. However I think it will be done in the form of mods. And maybe if the mod is good enough it can get added to the official multiplayer? Like if a group works on a fully playable kadesh faction with all the basic ship classes required for it to be balanced, it could be fun.

The biggest problem with these “sub races” is that they aren’t fully developed as fleets. They don’t have supercaps or destroyers, or a good selection of corvettes and fighters and frigates. More content would be needed for them to work as a properly balanced faction.

That being said, the FX Homeworld team has done an interesting job at bringing Kadesh and Taiidan into the game. These are going to be interesting times for the modding community of Homeworld indeed. While I may not agree with everything complex has done in their newer versions, I can’t help but thank the team for their dedication on keeping the game alive.

Hello all. This is a good topic. I personally would love to see Kadeshi expansion pack. Show how Kadeshi managed to survive after seperating from the exile fleet and settling to the garden of Kadesh nebula. I would like to see how Turnic Raiders ended up finding their place and maybe learn what stage of technology ships they used during their encounter. All leading up to the arrival of the Kushan fleet. It would be interesting to see the type of ships that the both race had at those time.

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Part of what the op is asking has already been done in Classic HW, and HW2.

HW 2 has progenitor mods. It also has Tactical Fleet Simulator (which developed from the point defense systems mod). Plus other mods which add new ships, and modified existing ships to fleets not fully fleshed out.

Classic HW had Raiders Ascendant which IMO was pretty damn good at fleshing out the Turanic fleets (Noteworthy model the Turanic Heavy Cruiser).

I have no doubt similar mods will pop up for HW-RE.

I think the most wanted “expansion” or DLC would be Cataclysm, or the “Beast Wars”. Second would be perhaps be the events of the “Dust Wars”.

FUnny when race mods for homeworld 2 get brought up no one ever seems to mention all the work i put into homeworld universe and all the races in it.

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It was done in many mods as other said and I’m sure the original developer can either create new assets and take inspiration from existing models.

+1 at Raiders Ascendant mod that has all the Turanic ships for HW1, same for another less known mod with all the Kadeshi, from cruisers to corvettes and cool designs too!

Homeworld Universe has indeed one of the greatest collection of ships and many of them could easily be mistaken for original… so about the next point:

We already have “pure” homeworld 1 and 2 with the classic versions and of course the remastered will be different in some ways so why not expand on the already great base, more so officially?

This isn’t something I would either see in HW3 because that should move forward from the current plot (or possibly backward to explain things) hence the only chance to have more Homeworld and keep it alive is now, think like a way to keep players interested when the novelty factor of 4 races multiplayer is gone.

At that time just release a shiny new addition with a couple playable races, some missions or side stories and you’ll see more casual gamers will come back, old fans will always be playing of course! :wink:

Just my opinion, I’d love to see new races with complete fleets in expansions, provided the design and the art quality fit the game, so it can be played in Skirmish or Multiplay. Also, expansions with the same/new ships in new textures for different kiiths are also interesting, like a Sobani frigates pack.

I dislike the idea of making expansions creating whole fleets for Kadesh, Progenitors and Turanic Raiders. If SP mode becomes possible to be created maybe a set of 2 or 3 missions in a row for the Turanics, but none of them with a complete fleet.

The thing is they were thought as secondary role and NPCs (non-playable characters), their nature for drama purpose is to be incomplete, more tactic oriented than strategy oriented. The mods that brought more ships for them were interesting but it’s a lot of time invested for a 5m appreciation. If you wanna play them in-game, what about an assymetrical game mode where they work as suplementary factions?

Supplementary faction? Now there is a thought… Mercenary’s!

Which is what the Turanics pretty much are. Hired guns for the Taiidan. They just happen to be pirates on the side :wink: Who’s to say they wouldn’t fight for the Kushan if the price is right.

Cant say we could do the same for the Kadeshi, because they are too xenophobic. Plus didn’t the Kushan wipe them out? I don’t know if its canon that there were any surviving Kadeshi after the battle of the garden, but it is possible.

A MP map could have a random spawn of NPC Kadeshi survivors to harass all of the players.

Mercenary’s idea is nice, pirates… well Kadeshi swarming around the map or close to the resources can work as long as they aren’t more than a nuisance: I don’t want them as strong as a legit player… but blowing up some collectors it’s ok, even better if I can capture some of their badass frigates!

@SAAA, I think you may have misunderstood my intentions. Those were hypothetical questions meant to be counterpoints, my answers to them were the paragraphs that followed

@Major_Stress I understand that there are mods out there that have attempted this and that are of high quality. Personally, I would like to see commercial product though. Expansions that had the benefit of publishers money behind it with the original relic developers at Blackbird making it. I would prefer this because any product made would serve to officially expand canon.

Having said this, I would still like to see a remastering of Cataclysm come first

No problem, mine were just alternative answers xD

Yes, they would emerge from a specific game mode taylored for them, but I enjoyed the idea of having the kadesh as NPC in a Skirmish, makes sense. Maybe in maps envolving dust clouds clusters …

I think Kadesh would be relatively easy, given that they were already a part of HW2 via mod

Cataclysm is the only expansion pack worthy of the developer’s time and resources. Aside from that, I would rather their attention be focused on Shipbreakers or Homeworld 3.
Anything else can be better served by the modding community.

And yet, they are capable of doing things sequentially. Developing expansions isn’t an absolute that prevents any of the things you mentioned from being performed. If more content can be made, then why not?

As for the modding community, there would still be plenty for them to do, particularly in regards to realizing licenses Gearbox doesn’t have access to. As for the campaign races, I would greatly prefer that they be realized in an official manner, especially considering that several of these race’s extinctions prevent them being implemented in any future Homeworld 3.

I miss-understood the topic.

If the developers add any of this then that would be cool. I personally would like to see “bounty’s” put against opponents where Turanics would hyperspace in and harrass those opponents.

I also would like to see the inclusion of the “Raiders Retreat” mission by the developers as an actual HW 1 campaign mission.

With the developers anything is possible. The question is do they have the will to do it.

I would love seeing new dlc campaigns… Most likely Catacysm first of course and that also getting incorporated into the unified mp mode…

Afterwards I think there are tons of possibilities where and how a dlc could look like for instance just new race packs such as a Taiidan Evolution pack - a new Empire that had arisen After the Vaygr fell demonstrated in a new minor campaign where you play them and conquer minor races… Etc…

I believe I have worked out a potential playstyle through which Progenitors could work as an MP race. Next to the Kadeshi, they are the race I would most like to see implemented, as it always felt to me like they were intended to be a third race but got scrapped for time.

The Progenitor race would be, in keeping with canon, a fleet of ancient derelict ships running off of only AI routines. In essence, it would be a race of robots that has outlived its masters. My view of them as a race would be a slow momentum one. Where units take time to prepare after “building” before they have any combat ability but are still capable of building defenses to prevent harassment.

The command ship for this fleet would be Sajuuk from the campaign. It won’t start out with its phased cannon beam, at least at first.

In regards to the Progenitor’s construction game, they don’t have one. By this I mean that the only thing the race actually still has construction facilities for is strike craft (movers, etc.). Capital ships like the keepers and the dreadnought, which were built in the long since destroyed Progenitor Mothership, are not built but are relics left derelict through out the galaxy. This is where the Progenitor’s research analog comes in to play. In order to bring capital ships to bear, Sajuuk first has to spend resource units in order to use the progenitor’s communication network to locate all extant derelicts. Once these ships have been found (comparable to researching technology), Sajuuk then has to spend more resource units to call out and hyperspace in these derelicts one at a time.

To bring up my earlier idea of a slow momentum race, all hyperspaced capital ships, due to their status as relics in disrepair, start out functionally useless (no combat capability, no movement etc.). For each unit, furthering their handling of the research mechanic, is that each capital ship has to spend resource units to repair their subsystems and bring them back online. This process has to be done individually on a per ship basis. This is to help balance out the fact that progenitor ships are very powerful.

Of course, more units would have to be designed to bring up the existing unit count and fill in the race’s tactical gaps.

As for the other races, if they can’t be fully implemented, I’d be okay with what someone earlier suggested with light implementation as npcs on the map.

For the Turanic Raiders, I can see this be handled in a similar fashion to how Sins of a Solar Empire handled pirates. On certain maps there can be a base of one of their attack carriers, one of their outposts from Cataclysm, or both. Starting out, this base is hostile and will harass anyone. However, it can be captured and held. The holder of this base would then be able to give RU bribes which would lead to harassment on a selected player proportional to the size of the bribe.

For the Bentusi, I think they could be a neutral trade npc. One that whomever can fight and get to them first, can spend RU to trade with them and speed up their research or receive armor and attack bonuses.

As for the Kadeshi, I don’t know if there would be a good canon way of implementing them as NPCs. I would like to see them be expanded into a “horde” type race, where they can summon more than one of their motherships and would have more racial capacity for expanding map presence.